The war over Ken Burns' 'The War'

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Joseph Flores Wed, May 28, 2008 at 02:32 AM EST

Give me a break. Burns is either an idiot or a racist to omit a segment of the population that contributed so profoundly to the WWII effort. Actually, I believe he is both. Enough of this white-washing of American history already!

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Pete Fri, Dec 21, 2007 at 05:27 AM EST

Hey, "Saving Private Ryan" doesn't have any Latino characters either! SHAME!!!!!

The Charters Of Dreams Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 12:08 AM EST

I think the documentary could have been more well-rounded, but it's also had an unexpected benefit: I ran into this essay that I think makes a great point about how Iran is not an imminent crisis by comparing Iran to the threat that the Axis Powers presented to the west in the 1940's as documented by Ken Burn's "The War:"

http://libertydesirebelief.thechartersofdreams.com/2007/10/iran-vs-a-real-crisis-ken-burn.html

ray perez Mon, Oct 1, 2007 at 03:29 AM EST

Hey Ken Burns..Si Se Puede!
1.4% of the population, people! That was the hispanic population of the US in 1940 according to the US census. It was only 6% in CALIFORNIA! So if other groups served in larger numbers and weren't specifically singled out in the documentary, then why single out latinos? I demand that Ken Burns revise "The Civil War" to also include latino contributions! While we are at it, all text books and documentaries must make extensive inclusion of the Latino experience with respect to the Revolutionary War! OK, everyone's contribution to preserving liberty should be honored but who is doing the white-washing now? Might over-representing one group's historical contributions be in order to promote today's political agenda of that group? As that group is by far the fastest growing major etchnic/racial group, it looks like we will see more of this flexing of the muscle in the future. Si Se Puede!
www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0056.html

Michelle Wed, Sep 5, 2007 at 08:37 PM EST

I think Burns omitted Mexican-American soldiers from his film because he couldn't depict them as inferior. They were not segregated from white soldiers and they were not shipped off to internment camps.

During WWII Mexican-Americans fought alongside whites, in all theaters of the war, and eleven were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor by FDR and Truman. In other words, Mexican-American soldiers were treated equally--like Americans.

But Ken wasn't interested in showing that. To him, minorities are useful as foils for whites, as subordinate people always trying to play catch up.

He couldn't show Mexican-American soldiers on the bottom, so he ignored them.

To Ken, America is 'white' and everybody else is a sub-American.

Thank God Congress and the sponsors stepped in. PBS has spent over 20 million tax dollars on this movie and to think that Ken was going to play fast and loose with the truth is scary. We need oversight at PBS.

Mike Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 08:54 PM EST

Am I missing something here? Did Mr Burns comment on or otherwise extol the virtues of individual ethnic populations and their contributions during WWII? Were Americans of Irish descent held up to be ultra-heroic, or perhaps those of Polish ancestry? Maybe the French among us? If not, then what is the problem?? No one was slighted, period.

Andrea Sun, Aug 19, 2007 at 05:11 PM EST

Previously:
"Why can't [they] say, '...we hope you'll be more aware'... Or better, if they had brought up the issue during the 6 long years he was filming"
"...chose four towns... to get a good cross section"
"...you cannot 'create' characters for documentaries...he is not a racist."
I cannot speak for others, but I am not saying he's racist. I'm not expecting the documentary to focus on any minority's experience.

However, at this point in his history, it's NOT "an honest mistake." The issue was raised when "Baseball" had only 5 minutes on any Latino players; it was raised when "Jazz" had no Latinos at all. I suspect they all thought he *would* "be aware" this time. With his approach, he had his choice of towns to pick a better "cross section." No Alabama Latinos, fine. But even if Sacramento had no Latino vets (unlikely), his criteria - defined elsewhere as unprofiled towns, w/o "baggage" - allowed many options. The artist chose -- not to learn from his own history. Sad.

Gerry Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 03:13 PM EST

I work for Alabama Public Television. We received a grant to develop a companion piece to THE WAR, one that focuses on just Alabama. After an EXHAUSTIVE search, we could not find one Latino WWII veteran in the state. We could not even find any Latinos who lived in the state during the WWII period. I'm not saying that there were no Latinos here back then. I'm just saying that we can't find them...and we've exhausted every resource we know.

Mobile, Alabama is one of the four towns Burns features in THE WAR. If we could not find any Latino WWII vets in Mobile, I doubt he could either. The other three cities are Luverne, Minnesota, Waterbury, Connecticut, and Sacramento, California. I doubt there are many Latino WWII vets in Luverne or Waterbury. It seems likely that there would be some in Sacramento. The point is that you cannot "create" characters for documentaries when you cannot locate them. The whole debate is ridiculous. I know Ken, and he is not a racist.

Steve_K Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:36 AM EST

Just for the record, I thought I should mention that, contrary to Mr. Vozick-Levinson's statement, I have been convinced that Ken Burns is racist since I saw "Jazz." He is definitely NOT a racial supremicist, which is the ordinary sort of racist found over the last 100 years or so. He doesn't believe that his own race (or any other, so far as I can tell) is superior. He is more a racist in the Victorian sense. He thinks race matters (or so it appears to me). He seems to believe that there are more and less appropriate venues and endeavors for each race. I am confident that, if Burns were to do a documentary on a topic where he felt that it was appropriate for Latinos to contribute, he would laud them to the sky, and to the exclusion of folks with other racial backgrounds who didn't fit his preconceptions. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that were his next project.

Jeff Mon, May 14, 2007 at 02:59 PM EST

I really should resist added to a dead comment threat, but I cannot. To Karen: 464 Medals of Honor were awarded in WW II. 13 is about 1 in 36. This hardly makes Burns' oversight 'egregious'.
To Mr. Molinar (and the reason I write): "An Oxford History of the American People (1963)" is a poor source. Lincoln mustered out on July 10, 1832 from the Illinois militia. The massacre occured on August 2, 1832, and was by FEDERAL soldiers. Some 150+ innocents were killed. Jefferson Davis never served in the Black Hawk War; he was on furlough.

Hainc Tue, May 1, 2007 at 04:37 PM EST

Documentary doesn't mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean complete truth. Have you seen a Michael Moore mockumentary? I only believe what I see and the NY Times editorial page/newspaper (same thing!).

Hainc Tue, May 1, 2007 at 04:36 PM EST

Documentary doesn't mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean complete truth. Have you seen a Michael Moore mockumentary? I only believe what I see and the NY Times editorial page/newspaper (same thing!).

Karen Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 08:01 PM EST

The issue here isn't race or ethnicity, but accuracy.

If Burns is going to call his work a documentary, then he needs to get
the history right. Hundreds of thousands of Latinos fought in WWII, and thirteen(eleven Americans of Mexican
descent and two Puerto Ricans) received the Congressional Medal of
Honor from FDR and Truman.

Yet those stories are not good enough for the history books, documentaries, or
Hollywood movies? I don't think so. If Burns cannot see how egregious
his omission is, then he shold stop presenting his work as non-fiction.

Furthermore, Latinos have fought in every US military conflict since the US Revolution. There is even a Navy Destroyer named after a Mexican-American Vietnam vet: The USS Gonzalez.

The government has acknowledged the military contributions of Latinos. It's the media who write us out of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hispanic_Medal_of_Honor_recipients

Karen Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 08:01 PM EST

The issue here isn't race or ethnicity, but accuracy.

If Burns is going to call his work a documentary, then he needs to get
the history right. Hundreds of thousands of Latinos fought in WWII, and thirteen(eleven Americans of Mexican
descent and two Puerto Ricans) received the Congressional Medal of
Honor from FDR and Truman.

Yet those stories are not good enough for the history books, documentaries, or
Hollywood movies? I don't think so. If Burns cannot see how egregious
his omission is, then he shold stop presenting his work as non-fiction.

Furthermore, Latinos have fought in every US military conflict since the US Revolution. There is even a Navy Destroyer named after a Mexican-American Vietnam vet: The USS Gonzalez.

The government has acknowledged the military contributions of Latinos. It's the media who write us out of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hispanic_Medal_of_Honor_recipients

Karen Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 08:01 PM EST

The issue here isn't race or ethnicity, but accuracy.

If Burns is going to call his work a documentary, then he needs to get
the history right. Hundreds of thousands of Latinos fought in WWII, and thirteen(eleven Americans of Mexican
descent and two Puerto Ricans) received the Congressional Medal of
Honor from FDR and Truman.

Yet those stories are not good enough for the history books, documentaries, or
Hollywood movies? I don't think so. If Burns cannot see how egregious
his omission is, then he shold stop presenting his work as non-fiction.

Furthermore, Latinos have fought in every US military conflict since the US Revolution. There is even a Navy Destroyer named after a Mexican-American Vietnam vet: The USS Gonzalez.

The government has acknowledged the military contributions of Latinos. It's the media who write us out of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hispanic_Medal_of_Honor_recipients

Karen Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 08:01 PM EST

The issue here isn't race or ethnicity, but accuracy.

If Burns is going to call his work a documentary, then he needs to get
the history right. Hundreds of thousands of Latinos fought in WWII, and thirteen(eleven Americans of Mexican
descent and two Puerto Ricans) received the Congressional Medal of
Honor from FDR and Truman.

Yet those stories are not good enough for the history books, documentaries, or
Hollywood movies? I don't think so. If Burns cannot see how egregious
his omission is, then he shold stop presenting his work as non-fiction.

Furthermore, Latinos have fought in every US military conflict since the US Revolution. There is even a Navy Destroyer named after a Mexican-American Vietnam vet: The USS Gonzalez.

The government has acknowledged the military contributions of Latinos. It's the media who write us out of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hispanic_Medal_of_Honor_recipients

EP Sato Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 05:21 PM EST

That's my point. Latinos DID live in small towns in the 1940's and did participate in WWII in large enough numbers to be a significant factor in the American military.
If you are talking about towns that had Blacks and Japenese people, it's likely towns out west. And people, MOST of the west was once Mexico. So to hear anon and Banana's perspective all the latinos disapeared between 1845 and 1990 out west. I reiterrate my point that Latinos WERE present in the towns featured in the documentary and should have gotten mention. But we didn't fit into Normal Rockwell paintings or any other myths of America in the 1940's.

BTW, I love it when an anonymous person (from the south, no less) makes several references to race (including mine) and then says " If you make race relevant, if you bring race into it, then you are the one who is a racist". Yes, my friend, you most certainly are. Have fun at the next Klan meeting.

Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 06:01 PM EST

"So, NO Latinos ever lived in small towns or fought in WWII? ...
Historians usually strive to teach us that this old way ignored reality."

Ummm...good job, you've convinced this particular white person that Latinos can be racist too. Not every white person is out to personally attack you. And actually, yes, the Latino population in the 1940s was WAY LOWER than it is today. It is very plausible that 4 randomly chosen small towns FROM 1945 would have limited Latino population, if any. I live in the south, and we have a huge Latino population now, but I know for a fact that it was not here yet in the 40s. The point here is that there are literally 100s of ethnic groups in the US who fought in WWII. There is no reason that each one needs a personal shout out in this type of doc. In fact, doing so would be far more racist than simply producing a coherent, reasonable, color-blind documentary. If you make race relevant, if you bring race into it, then you are the one who is a racist.

PoliticalCorrectHorseshit Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 02:43 PM EST

I can't believe people get all bent out of shape over stuff like this. Get a life.

Matty Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 10:53 AM EST

This is a ridiculous debate. Not every perspective can be represented in every work of art, movie, tv show, book, etc. Let the man tell the story he researched and enjoy it for what it is. This isn't a slight against the Latino community. It's just the story Ken Burns found.

And to Monico, why would Burns include the story of something that took place 30 years prior to the subject of The Civil War?

Laurie Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 10:45 AM EST

Thank you Honeybee. I share in your opinion. Not to shake the tree too much, but just because our country has a growing hispanic community does not mean that every film must be completely inclusive of their perspective. If Ken Burns chose the town my father grew up in SD for his doc he would not have run into anyone but Scandinavian German Scotch-Irish Lutherans and Catholics in the 1940's. It is more multi cultural now, but that is just how it was then in small prairie farm towns.

Francisco Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 08:47 AM EST

While I am disappointed that The War has left out the Latino perspective of WWII, I do believe it to be an honest mistake.
The Latino perspective in any history book or documentary tends to appreviated if mentioned at all.
I do not want Mr. Burns' to shoehorn a segment of Latino history into his current body of work. Having seen his work in the past I know it to be thoughtful and thorough.
Instead I would hope that PBS or any network would pick up a documentary that focused exclusively on the Latino perspective throughout American history and air it several times throughout the year and not just through Hispanic Heritage Month.

Monico P. Molinar Mexican/American Vietnam Vet. 82nd Airlborne Division. 3rd/325 Inf. Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 03:56 AM EST

I believe Ken Burns would leave out Rock and Roll icon “Santana” if he ever made a documentary on Woodstock. I think I now question what he left out of his famous “Civil War” documentary. I know one tiny tidbit Ken Burns left out of his Civil War Documentary; it was written in Samuel Eliot Morison, Harvard PHD, WWII Rear Admiral, book AN OXFORD HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE which details that in 1832 a young lieutenant army officer named Abraham Lincoln commanded and massacurred over 1000 men, women, and babies of the Fox and Saux Indian tribes for returning to their own soil in Illinois, USA. That never gets mentioned in Ken Burns Civil War documentary and it should because “Black Hawk” the chief of these tribes gets his life saved by another US army commander who is none other than a young lieutenant Jefferson Davis.

EP Sato Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 10:17 PM EST

Banana-
So, NO Latinos ever lived in small towns or fought in WWII?

Four towns with Black and Japanese American populations magically had not one Latino WWII vet. BANANA, you must be smoking the peels to be gullible enough to call that coincidence.

The old way of thinking was that Latinos lived in NYC or LA, blacks were slaves until 1865 then disapeared until the civil rights era, and all Native Americans died at Wounded Knee.

Historians usually strive to teach us that this old way ignored reality. Burns had a willingness to go beyond the old way. But this time he wants us to believe that small town WWII era America really looked like Norman Rockwell paintings.

But don't sweat it Banana. You probably grew up in a midwestern town where the Latinos lived on one side of the tracks. You could fantasize that we never lived in the Midwest until 1980, ignoring the very real fact that we've been in most Midwest farm and railroad towns since day one.
www.idiots-link-to-their-blogs.com

Fatima Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 08:39 PM EST

How lucky am I that the two topics I would love to start learning about in depth (baseball and jazz) are already Ken Burns documentaries. A netflixing we will go.

Gordon Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 07:05 PM EST

how the heck do Latino activists know this if it's not on until September?

can i get advance screenings by starting an activist group? :-o

YoSoyMexicano! Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 06:56 PM EST

Thanks Karla!

One of the issue that lies here is that Burns' doc's are considered "definitive" and used as educational supplements in classrooms nationwide. & with the latin@/chican@ student populations increasing, there needs to be something done to be reflective of the current populations. We need to be educated on our populations, including the one that will shortly no longer be a sub-population. So, with that said: Stop silencing our voices and stop making us more invisible!

Banana Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 05:44 PM EST

One of the major problems in changing the film at this point is that it was designed to focus on four specific U.S. communities, soldiers from those communities and the effect the war had on those towns. If there were any Latino perspectives to be found in those places, Burns & Co. probably would have found them. Just slapping together a couple more hours of Latino perspective would ruin the film (which I have seen portions of) due to the way it's structured.

petesbananas.blogspot.com

Kristina Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 05:29 PM EST

I think the word "angry" is taking it a bit too far-- it was an honest mistake, so why can't the activists say, "We're sorry you didn't include Latino viewpoints. In the future, we hope you'll be more aware of the issue" and not get angry over the work of a mostly inclusive filmmaker? Or better, if they had brought up the issue during the 6 long years he was working on it instead of after the fact.

Honeybee Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 05:17 PM EST

While I sympathize with the protestors, the idea of Burns changing his documentary because of their protests does not sit well with me. Are we to submit all art to committee now? If it doesn't satisfy every special interest group, it should be changed as proscribed by said group?

Ken Burns did not set out to make this an inclusive documentary. He simply chose four towns (not soldiers) to get a good cross section of the experience. Let the work stand on its own based on that idea, though flawed. Have PBS commission a different documentary - perhaps by Burns or perhaps by a filmmaker that would take less time - to do an hour or two on Latinos and the war.

This time, the cause might seem noble, but the squeaky wheel should not have veto over an individual's artistic choices. It's too slippery a slope.

Becca Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 04:30 PM EST

Elizabeth, thanks for the link. It is impossible to express an insightful and meaningful opinion on this issue without having seen the film. As Simon stated, Burns is obviously not a racist so he clearly has another reason for not including Latino subjects in his film, as I am sure he has reasons for not including all the other minorities, religious groups, etc, that probably ultimately didn't make it in. What those reasons are, and whether they are legitimate, is something that can be only be reasonably debated after we have actually seen the documentary.

Karla Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 04:20 PM EST

Thanks Elizabeth - it's a good article.

The experiences of African American veterans of WWII, who fought fascism abroad and racism everywhere else, is now a de rigeur part of WWII lore.

And the experiences of the women at home who were pulled out of domesticity for the war effort, and then put right back in when the menfolk returned, are also a part of modern-day storytelling about WWII.

But the Latino and Hispanic story just hasn't been told. We're in a new century now, where it's pretty darned okay to hate swarthy Arabs, and to imagine that every Hispanic-appearing person in America is an immigrant from Mexico who came to steal jobs.

Didn't our fearless leaders just set aside a pointlessly stupid amount of money to build a pointlessly stupid fence that even border guards think is moronic?

It's important to include these stories now, when anti-immigrant and anti-Latino fervor is so very high.

Back to the drawing board, Kenneth. We can wait for you to do it right.

lola Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 04:15 PM EST

Normally, I'm all for inclusiveness but honestly, this is getting slightly ridiculous. Doesn't Burns expore the war through the stories of four individual soliders? Is he supposed to pick them based on ethnicity/race? What about other minorities, like Native Americans who fought in the war? Or gays and lesbians? Obviously, I could just go on and on. I understand the impetus behind people' critique, but this just seems like tokenism run amok. Critique the movie if you don't like it, but don't force Burns to start including different ethnic groups -- it's his freakin' film!

EP Sato Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 04:14 PM EST

Agreed with Ceballos and with Simon. If one talks about the Tuskugee airmen, the Japanese internment camps and the treatment of Jews during this era, it is only fair that Latinos get coverage. Especially so because the success and bravery of the Latino companies were part of the reason the military was de-segregated in the first place.

Speaking only for Puerto Ricans, we've fought alongside other American soldiers in EVERY conflict since WWI (some argue Puerto Ricans got citizenship specifically so we could get drafted in Wilson's war), but rarely get recognized.

So heck yeah we deserve a segment in this documentary! Enough of my kin have died so others could live enough to justify a few moments out of a friggin' 14 hour documentary.

Elizabeth Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 04:00 PM EST

This article does a better job of explaining how he found his subjects and how he created the framework for the film.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18013714/

Ceballos Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 03:50 PM EST

I agree 100% with Simon. I had a grandfather who fought in WWII and earned a Purple Heart, and he told me stories about Latino soldiers during the war and his time in Italy.

Also, Simon made the great point that extreme all-inclusiveness (which some people may think is silly and goes overboard) is actually Ken Burns' bread and butter. This is what he does.

The first poster said that if Burns acts this way, it would be "a very long documentary indeed." Umm...hello, it's already 14 hours! Better to the soldiers who would've been left out, and better for Burns' continued reputation and cred to do it right.

Ceballos Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 03:49 PM EST

I agree 100% with Simon. I had a grandfather who fought in WWII and earned a Purple Heart, and he told me stories about Latino soldiers during the war and his time in Italy.

Also, Simon made the great point that extreme all-inclusiveness (which some people may think is silly and goes overboard) is actually Ken Burns' bread and butter. This is what he does.

The first poster said that if Burns acts this way, it would be "a very long documentary indeed." Umm...hello, it's already 14 hours!

Will Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 03:47 PM EST

"Since his creative vision is fundamentally based on showing all sides of a historical event fairly, this won't be much of an imposition from an artistic standpoint." Yes, but since when is talking about the races involved a "side"? Why should he go out of his way to point out the contributions of specific races of people? Isn't that the very *essence* of racism?

Mon, Apr 9, 2007 at 03:37 PM EST

I don't understand why each and every group needs to have their specific "contribution" mentioned. Didn't basically every group, racial or otherwise, do their part in the war effort in WWII? Isn't it assumed without need for specific comment that some soldiers were Latino, some Black, some Jewish, some irish, some italian, etc? If Burns is forced to put in a specific hour on every imaginable ethnic group it is going to be a very long documentary indeed. I think that's pure insanity.