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Reunions never last long on Lost. Packs of people come together after protracted periods of being apart, and then immediately fracture into new pods and cliques. The mantra is “Live Together, Die Alone,” and yet our heroes have always kinda sucked at the community thing. Will the castaway clan ever learn to live as one big happy family of man? Is our “You All Everybody” idealism but a crock? I despair! And so it went on last night’s episode that Fake Locke and his flock of flunkies absorbed the “Let’s give peace a chance” Fab Four of Jack, Sun, Lapidus and Hurley. For a few fleeting moments, the Island super-group was back together. Then Smokey sent Sayid one way (to go kill Desmond in his well), and then Sawyer sent Jack that way (to help him execute the submarine escape plan), and then Jack sent everyone into a tizzy by deciding to go solo. Feeling the pull of Island destiny on his soul and trusting his gut to go with it, Jack literally jumped ship, i.e. Desmond’s yacht, the Elizabeth, the one he got from Libby for free. Consequently, Doc Shephard missed out on the story’s most emotional reunion. At last! Jin and Sun! Their crazy-cosmic marital separation is finally over! But before the tears could even squeeze out of our eyes, Zoe, the enemy of love (and compelling line readings), announced that the beginning of Charlie Widmore’s War. The castaways were forced to assume the execution position and rockets were fired in the direction of The Monster. The explosions got us a cool Mission Impossible 3-ish f/x shot of Jack getting awkwardly flung at the camera and left him dazed and confused in the care of Fake Locke, whom I shall heretofore refer to as The Man-Thing for reasons I may or may not explain to you. “Don’t worry. It’s going to be okay,” The Man Thing said. “You’re with me now.” We’ll see how long their partnership lasts.
“The Last Recruit” didn’t blow me away. Some of it really bugged me, actually, but it was a necessary staging episode for the final act of the season (and the series!), and I won’t judge it too harshly. But can I just say that the Lapidus line “Looks like someone got their voice back” may have been the most cornball moment in the history of Lost?!? (Like I said: not too harshly.) On the positive tip, I did appreciate the Burt Reynolds gag directed at Lapidus. A Smokey and the Bandit interpretation of the episode is forthcoming. And there were plenty of meaty things in this busybusybusy outing to chew and savor. Like Jack’s torchlight chat with The Man-Thing. (Mystery Resolution Alert! Christian Shephard has always been a Smokey apparition!) (But did you believe Mr. M-T when he made the claim?) Sayid’s wellside conversation with Desmond also captured my imagination (do you think Mr. Designated Assassin executed his orders?), as did Sideways Sun’s freak out over seeing Sideways John Locke and the set-up for the next episode: Sideways Jack’s scramble to save Sideways John’s life. That passing reference to Locke’s obliterated dural sac was a nod to the classic moment in the pilot when Jack recounted his most harrowing moment as a young doctor. It led me to wonder if Lost is about to come full circle and give the Jack an encounter with mind-clouding fear — in both worlds. Count to five, folks: I think things are about to get scary…
And speaking of terrifying monstrosities, my recap is currently under construction in the mad scientist lab of my mind. I promise a slightly more focused epic than the one I posted last week. (Good news for you: no literary references to send me down pretentious wormholes of thought!) And who knows? I might actually post this one before Thursday! Until then, the message boards are yours.
First! But, Doc, was Christian on the freighter also a Smokey apparition?
I would think so, but I’m going to chalk that up to one of those moments where the writers weren’t ENTIRELY sure of everything that would happen from that point forward.
Agree, it smells like the crap George Lucas was selling when he said he planned all six movies from the beginning instead of the truth that he made it up as he went along. It was a decent episode, certainly nowhere near as good as Ab Aeterno (GREATEST EPISODE OF ALL TIME!!!) Jack was actually interesting yet Kate was still a douche. Not enough Desmond. They could have used Kahlna Amnell to confess the man in black to find the truth.
Mispelled her name – Its Kahlan Amnell – she is the mother confessor
Now Kahlan would have made a great guest star on the show I must say…
Who was Christian Shepard when he appeared to Jack off island(episode during flash forward of Jack & Kate getting engaged/breakup) in the hospital waiting room?
But it couldn’t be Flocke/Christian on the freighter, because as Flocke told Sawyer, he can’t change into smoke and cross water to go to Widmore’s Camp – so, how could he appear on the freighter? There was no boat miraclously appearing by the freighter just before the explosion carrying Flocke/Christian.
Actually, he never said he couldn’t change into smoke and cross the water. He implied it. Sawyer asked why he didn’t fly over there, and he said, “If I could do that, don’t you think I’d do it?” He didn’t actually say he couldn’t. We *know* that he was on Hydra island as Locke when Ajira landed there…
And what about when Jack saw Christian at the hospital???
“Agree, it smells like the crap George Lucas was selling when he said he planned all six movies from the beginning instead of the truth that he made it up as he went along.”
Read the prologue from the very first page of the novelization of Star Wars Lucas wrote in 1977. Not any reprints, but the one published in 77.
And who or what was island appearing Walt in season 2? He wasn’t dead so smokey couldn’t be him? Can Jacob do the same thing and we just don’t know it yet? (it’s a little late for that now though)I’m watching season 3 now in hopes of “Walt Resolution”. Any thoughts? Yes, I remember when Clue (sp?) asked if Walt ever appeared in places where he wasn’t supposed to be….but that’s it…Help?
Hey Zedd. I know someone who has seen all NINE (yes, that’s 9) original George Lucas Star Wars tomes in his library on his ranch. This person worked for Lucas in the early 1990′s. I wouldn’t be surprised if he changed some things along the way, but the stories existed before, at least, Episodes 1-3 (films 4-6) were shot.
@Zeddicus zu’l zorander I think they didn’t know where the show was going from season 1-3. After they got the end date, they probably knew a lot of what they were going to do.
what about mobiscode #13 when we get the vincent eye view of the jungle immediately after the plane crash in the pilot… and vincent eventually sees Christian… and Christian says[to the dog]… go find my son… we have work to do?
I think Zoe should sleep with Ben doctorsfriends
Jack also saw his dead father in a flash forward in the LA Hospital when the smoke detector went off.
What about when Christian appeared to Jack off-island. He actually set off his smoke detector!
No, Locke was lying…He is not Christian, because Christian’s body was not around like Lockes was.
Actually, Christian’s body was around. That’s why Jack was on the plane in the first place, right? He was flying his dad’s body back from Australia. He only ever found an empty casket.
“Actually, Christian’s body was around. That’s why Jack was on the plane in the first place, right? He was flying his dad’s body back from Australia. He only ever found an empty casket.”
he meant it wasn’t around , in that it wasn’t found after crashing, unlike locks body which was still there. but smoky could have hiden it, to convince jack he was actually his father and lead him to where ever he followed him to.
In regards to Christian appearing in L.A. – Isn’t it possible that Jack imagined it? Wasn’t Jack on the cusp of having breakdowns/using drugs excessively?
In regards to Locke seeing “Big” Walt – Couldn’t Locke have just been imagining things? He was just shot and the blood loss could have been messing with his head.
I thought the question about ghost-Christian showing up on the freighter was a good one, cuz it seemed like the freighter was outside the perimeter of what is considered “the Island.” When the Island disappeared, the blown up freighter didn’t travel with it. (Or did it? That would explain how Jin ended back on the Island in time for time-travel).
If the freigher was outside of the Island’s parameters, then ghost-Christian can’t be Smokey, b/c Smokey cannot leave the Island. The same goes for Christian in L.A. Smokey can’t leave the Island! That’s the whole point of Season 6.
Zed,
Actually, Lucas had nine movies planned for Star Wars from the very beginning. It doesn’t seem that we’ll see the last three, since they were supposed to be set 20 years after 4 thru 6. (The three main actors would be 20 years older at the time they should have been made.) But mostly I know we’ll never see the last 3, because a few years ago, Lucas said he was no longer interested in making them. Check around with your older friends and family. Just about anyone who got caught up in Star Wars originally remembers the excitement of finding out that original was the first of nine.
Usually writers know the whole story before the story gets to the stage of being seen by others. Even TV shows with X numbers of years to them agreed to before going into production tend to be written by people who DO know how it all comes together and turns out.
I forgot Christian was seen on the freighter. But now remind, it is a very good question. Smokey already said he couldn’t travel over water without the usual means, so that does make us suspicious of him being Christian. (Or, somewhere in there is probably a lie.) I haven’t seen any “oopsies” by the writers yet. (Okay, they may not have forseen that some actors would do stuff off the set that would make the writers “terminate” them in the storyline, but even most of them have returned, thanks to Hurley.) I doubt that is one.
After all, the writers for Star Trek were so thorough, they even had a manual on the Enterprise to make sure it couldn’t do anything outside their preconceived parameters. Give writers credit. Surely, they understood who Christian was before he entered the picture.
As for Walt reappearing on the island (way back when) – there’s “a new kid in town.” We don’t know who that new kid is, but I’m wondering if he and Walt might not have something in common. I’m not saying the island kid is Walt – but he feels “Waltish.” Whoever he is. I like him because he annoys Smokey.
And what about ghost Christian in Jack’s medical office off the island???
In that episode off-island, the smoke alarm goes off actually leading Jack to the waiting room where Chrisitan is.
I think Smokey is just playing it by ear there when Jack asked him that. Christian showed up off-island in Jack’s offices. No indication that Jack was hallucinating, although that was during his drinking phase. But for sure, it wasn’t Smokey. Upshot — Smokey may be lying. Uncertainty! What a shock,
nice catch Stephen
but I also agree, taht it doesn’t sound believable that MIB would appear off island. On the other hand Jacob traveled outside of the island, so maybe MIB can appear there as well.
Maybe the writers didn’t know where that story will go.
I had the same question about Ghost Christian off-island…if the MIB can’t get off the island, then what about Ghost Christian in L.A.? Also, I think the writers finally revealed that Sawyer and Kate are gonna turn out to be Adam and Eve…the whole apple scene at the police station set that up.
What about Walt at the end of season 3?
Jacob = Smokey? Er… Smokey #2? Now that’s a twist…
And when Christian first appeared to Jack on the island, he took him on a run through the jungle that resulted in Jack nearly falling off a cliff. That was a confession of intent to murder if ever I heard one, yet Jack seemed nonplussed. I guess he’s easier-going than I am–I’d still be a little peeved.
Dave you mentioned Walt. I don’t think the MIB can become Walt as Walt didn’t die. However, if Smokey can be anyone who has died on the island, then are the dead people Hurley is seeing also part of MIB?
Even at the time I assumed Christian in the waiting room wasn’t a ghost, but an apparition of Jack’s inner demons. But what do I know?
Ghost Christian appeared to Jack after Jack visited Hurley in the nut house. Hurley told him that Charley said that Jack should expect a visit. So, I don’t think it was Smokey FLocke as Christian.
I’m gonna go with ghost Christian is actually ghost Christian just like Charlie and Michael and while these guys are all dead on the island, their ghosty selves are not trapped in the same sense that MIB is trapped. They’re trapped as ghosts but not necessarily to the island… and then the MIB took Jack’s question and ran with it…
That’s what I’m asking. Who in the hell was Walt at the end of season 3?
And now thinking about it, what happen to Jacob? He seemed to disappear from the story line.
And true Lost fan must admitt that this episode was pure garbage, as far as the on island stuff, and it ranks next to “What Kate Did”.
Sometimes Christian was wearing his black funeral shoes, and sometimes he was wearing white sneakers. Black/White, MiB/Jacob…. coincidence? Or could the Christian that Jack saw in the hospital have been Jacob?
All of which suggests, simply, that Un-Locke was lying.
OK, so if Flocke was lying (which I want to believe he was), how did he know to tell Jack that he made Jack follow him so that he can find water?
Born2Run,
I’m of the opinion that Christian off island was Jacob, using the lighthouse to “project” himself off island. Could be wrong, of course.
@ Dave …get caught up before asking questions and making observations. You will just drive everyone crazy. Did you not see Jacob in season 6? You said he disappeared from the story line. LOL.. and Walt went home.
jacob appeared off island, maybe smokey can appear off island but only as a ghost or apparition.
The difference between Hurley’s ghosts and the apparitions that Smokey takes on is that everyone can see Smokey’s dead people look-a-likes. Only Hurley can see the TRUE ghosts of people who once lived on the island.
My question is whether the Jacob who has appeared to Hurley is REALLY Jacob. Since Jacob died, Smokey can take on Jacob’s image. (The only argument against this theory is that Jacob appeared next to the healing waters when Smokey could not yet enter the Temple).
I don’t necessarily think he’s to be trusted. I still think he might be a Locke, dressed in Flocke’s clothing.
What if it were FLocke appearing as Christian ON the island and Christians actual ghost appearing off the island. We know the candidates seem to have the ability to see supernatural things. Maybe that was ghost Christian showing up to warn off island Jack. As for the freighter well I always thought it was within the scope of the island. For example Jin barely survived the explosion when he was on the freighter but he time jumped with everyone else. maybe the confines of the island extend beyond the actual landmass.
I don’t think that Christian off the island was the Smoke Monster. That Christian said, “You can’t raise him” or something like that. At the time, we were supposed to think he was talking about Aaron and that whole “raise by another” thing. But, I think it was a reference to bringing Locke back to the island to raise him from the dead. Why would smokey want to stop Jack from giving him a body that he shaped to execute his plans?
Also Christian appears to Sun and Lapidus at the Barracks while Flocke was still on Hydra Island, so he was lying to Jack last night.
Sheco, that is a good catch, I didn’t remember that. Seems to me that Flocke/Smokey/Man in Black/Unlocke is a liar!
@Shane: I thought the apple scene was just a reference to “sin” in general, rather than a reference to Sawyer and Kate being Adam and Eve. Interesting idea! Did anyone else notice that Ilana the Attorney kept referring to Jack as “Mr. Shepard” instead of Dr. Shepard?
Great points about made here…
I don’t know but I think that’s all were getting about Christian Shephard. There’s not enough time to explain more…
Claire has become ‘smoke’ too
What makes no sense is that Ghost Christian was chatting with Sun and Lepidus at the same time FLocke was on the Hydra Island with Ben.
Hey man, even Flocke had to take a bathroom break. He probably excused himself from Ben, played Christian and came back.
Wait a sec! Where was Ben? I never saw him on the Island – that cannot have been unplanned.
Last time we saw Ben, he went with Richard.
Myles also went with Richard .
THANK YOU!!!!
THAT WAS THE 1RST THING THAT CAME TO MY HEAD!
WHAT THE HELL?
And didn’t they look out the window of the house to see FLocke standing out there? Was Christian still visible in the house with them when that happened?
Right Marten! This has been driving me crazy ever since someone brought it to my attention. How could Smokey be on Hydra Island while [another?] “Smokey” is on the big island manifesting as Christian to Sun and Lapidus? Christian and Smokey were on two different islands at the same time. It wasn’t until the next day that Flocke and Ben came to the big island for Ben to be judged. That’s when Flocke was standing outside the window. Christian had already left. When Sun and Lapidus walked up the dock, we clearly heard smoke monster noises and then Christian came out the door. Caesar said Flocke watched over Ben in the night. Smokey can’t fly across water. How long does it take to row from one island to the other? I don’t think Flocke had time to be on both islands in the same night.
Um, I thought he just said that was him posing as Christian when he led Jack to water… Granted, it was also probably him when Claire disappeared in Season 4, but I don’t remember him saying he was Christian the entire postmortem time.
What if there are two smoke monsters? I was thinking that perhaps Jacob can also change himself into smoke or take the shape of a different person in order to manipulate a situation.
Come on guys! Smokey / FLocke lies. What part of that isn’t entirely clear? He will say whatever he needs to say to convince people to help him implement his plan to get off the island.
Certainly FLocke is a liar but how this….I don’t seem to recall “hearing” the approach of smokey as any of the apparitions. Perhaps smokey can “project” the image of the Christian and others and that’s why they simply appear and disappear? Additionally, if had to become the shape of the dead person (what about Walt?) then wouldn’t he be “stuck” in that form like he is now with Locke?
When Sun and Lapidus were walking up the dock, you could hear the smoke monster. You could hear the ticking noises and you could see him pulling down trees or tall vegetation in the jungle. Frank said, “Did you see that?” Sun said, “It was probably just an animal.” They walked on into Dharmaville. Then Christian opened the door and walked out to talk to Sun and Frank. He told Sun she had a bit of a journey ahead of her. From all of that, I took it to mean that we were supposed to think the smoke monster was manifesting as Christian. Meanwhile, the real Smokey is supposedly back on Hydra Island sitting beside Ben’s bed. Up until “The Last Recruit,” I was thinking there were two smoke monsters. Now I don’t know what to think. I know that Flocke saying he manifested as Christian on Day 3 doesn’t explain all the appearances of Christian. And he was probably lying even about that. My “understanding” is that Smokey could manifest as any dead person up until Jacob died. That’s when he got stuck as Locke. In a March podcast, Damon and Carlton said that Jacob’s death is what caused Flocke to get stuck as Locke. I want Christian to come back and I want to know who or what he is.
Oh man! I think I’m gonna try this website! lol I wonder how many idiots actually type out that website and go to it. “You’ll never believe how I met my wife! I was reading a recap of Lost, and someone put spam on a comment, and I just felt romantic, so I went to it, and I met my future wife a week later!” Sad.
so tired spamming d bags
agreed
What frustrates me is that Claire is acting all upset with everybody for leaving her behind on the island, why doesn’t anybody ask her where she went and why did she leave her baby behind, its her fault she “just walked off in the night” and left her baby, if she didn’t do that she would have had a seat on the helicopter since she had Aaron, it wasn’t her fault she wandered off and then the island disappeared, there was nothing else the oceanic 6 could have done to bring her with, it was all Claire’s fault (or smokey’s) that she wasnt taken with and the others such as Kate and Jack and Sawyer should call her on that. I’m frustrated by that
Douchecanoe. I’ve been wanting to use that word all day.
haha, I read that on the boards earlier today and I have been using it ever since.
Hmmm – So would a douche canoe be a canoe made out of douches, or a canoe where you go to get douched?
where is the recap??????
No recap due to the holiday.
What holiday?
Evidently Doc Jensens Admin took the day off and is unable to type his recap – It’s Exec Assistant Day
Are you serious??
sadly – yes – it really is Executive Assistant Day but I truly doubt Doc ranks an assistant
LOL He’s senior writer, and hopefully the editors haven’t taken the day off.
Stop. Now.
HA! I’ve been thinking about it too!
Great episode! There were too many juicy pieces to digest them all at once. I got chills when I realized the writers were hinting that Jack died in Widnmore’s explosions and that MIB Locke brought him back to life, just as Sayid said he was brought back to life. Freaky! And I thought for sure Sawyer from the flashes in time was going to kill present-day Sawyer or some of his crew.
Whoa… I honestly didn’t think about that but I didn’t get the feeling that Jack died from that blast.
Yeah, we heard what jack was hearing that whole time. Not dead.
Nooo, I didn’t even think of that! What I kept thinking all episode is that this is all leading to an ending with Jacob and MIB still on the island, replaying their old games for all eternity, only their places (bodies?) will have been taken over by Locke and Jack. Sorry if this is an old theory, I haven’t been able to keep up with all the recaps and comments…
His point may have to do with the fact Jack saw Locke’s face in the mirror, not his own.
I also didn’t think that the blast was enough to kill Jack, but I did think that the writers were hinting that MIB Locke either revived Jack or would try to make Jack think he had died and had been brought back to life.
Jack didn’t die; the Island isn’t done with him yet.
That was my first thought, too. They wanted at least the appearance that Jack and died and been brought back, like Sayid. Or like Claire. I still think she died in the blast in New Otherton in Season 4 and was brought back/claimed. Otherwise, why would she have just wondered off and left Aaron in the middle of the night?
What if Jack did die and now Jacob has taken over his body a la MIB with Locke, and then what I posted above makes sense? Naaaaah, too far-fetched, FLocke would have known it the second Jack looked at him. Darn it.
I thought of the whole Jack/Locke thing as a balance between the two realities. On the island Jack is weakened/damaged and his fate lies in Locke’s hands. In the sideways world Locke is on the operating table and his fate lies in Jack’s hands. Just as the balance in the previous episode was between Locke and Desmond with Locke throwing Desmond down a well in one world and Desmond hitting Locke with a car in the other world.
I don’t think Jack “died”, but I wouldn’t rule out him being suddenly paraplegic.
@Lynn-I totally agree with your comment.
I totally agree with Lynn. Thank you for that. Though if he had died & been claimed, there could still be the potential that he could be reminded of innate good & switch back from the dark side as per Hurley’s suggestion–through the power of Love, Return of the Jedi theme that Kristin of E!Online said was the theme of the whole show. Oh & PS I lived 4 years in Ann Arbor & was always hoping they’d tie in something about what really motivated the DeGroots & Hansos
Remember season 1 episode 4 – Walkabout, when John, Kate, and Michael were in the jungle hunting boar? After Michael got hurt and he and Kate went back to the beach, John was hunting alone. The “monster” as they called it then was coming toward Locke. This was before we ever saw it as black smoke. He wasn’t scared at all and stood there looking at it. Later he said that he “looked into the eye of the island” and that what he saw was BEAUTIFUL. Maybe Jacob is the beautiful monster..LOL Some messages from Christian, and by the way he did introduce himself as Christian to Locke in the cabin, were telling people what to do and Jacob said he wouldn’t tell them what to do. Richard also said that Jacob would never tell them what to do. So how can John see something beautiful but the rest of the time it is a killing machine? Except that time he didn’t kill Ecko.
Bottom line, Flocke’s explanation of him being the one to appear as Christian just doesn’t hold water. It must be a ploy to convince Jack he has been trying to help him all along. Besides, Christian always claimed to be speaking for Jacob. I think Christian was Jacob at times. I think Jacob and MIB can both appear as whomever they want and use that ability to further their own side of the argument about people being good or evil. So, what I am saying is that both of them could have appeared as Christian.
LMAO @ the opening spam message. This is getting ridiculous.
douche canoe. that’s rich, the imagery fits. thanks! i hadn’t heard that one before.
And was Christian at the hospital Smokey? If so, how did he get off the island?
What about Christian in the hospital during season 4?
Loved the episode!!
Too bad Lost will end this season. Still lots of stories to tell.
Perhaps a Lost movie afterwards. Suddenly with all the things they are putting on 6. Season 2 and 3 doesn’t make sense much.
You mean the reverse, right? LOL They are throwing stuff out there now that negates what they said is seasons 1-3. Which is SO frustrating that we watched and paid close attention to all these episodes early on, and now they’re just throwing $h|t at the wall to make a cool ending without worrying if it all ties together or makes sense with earlier mythology.
I agree with Dude. All we ever asked as fans is DONT SCREW IT UP. Yet, it seems all the answers we are getting do not coincide with what they have shown us so far. Very frustrating.
@Dude, that’s exactly what I was thinking. I feel like if I had only watched a summary of seasons 1 to 5 and then this season, that I’d get exactly the same as I’m getting out of *meticulously* watching every show of every season. Very frustrating.
@Dude. It seems everyone is jumping to conclusions w/o letting the action play out. With so many rich storylines, I doubt anyone commenting on continuity issues really knows what they are talking about. I think the show is still on track.
I know it’s frustrating guys, but that’s what makes this show so rich. Everything that’s happened before, all the flashbacks, forwards, everything it seasons 1-3, actually DO matter because they can now be seen with respect to what we know now. That’s what makes watching any older episode so great, EVERY situation that’s ever happened on this show can now be looked at 2, sometimes 3 different ways, depending on who you trust, what you think their REAL motivations are, whose side they’ve really been on. That why so much of the show will still be open-ended after it’s over, because we’ll have to go back and figure out who, if anyone, was ever telling the truth, and who was really pulling the longest of cons.
Fake Locke hesitated and lied to Jack to manipulate him about his father. It suprised him when Jack asked him that question. I think we will see a reunion or some some sort of closure and peace between Jack and his father.
Yes, yes, yes. Flock LIES constantly to manipulate people to serve his own purpose. He was not Christian on the beach. But he did know that “Christian” led Jack to water. So how did he know that? Maybe he was hiding out in smoke form to observe the losties for a while.
My husband & both thought he was lying when he said he was Christian and I didn’t buy his story about leading Jack to water. But then Claire said he had been our father, and that’s how she recognized him when he changed into the Locke’s image. So, I too wonder if there is a “real” ghost Locke and the Smoke Monster version. And if you think about it, there were times when you saw Christian that he seemed to have Jack’s interest at heart and others when he seemed self-serving.
By the way, this post & the second “Lisa” post are not the same as the 8:17 am Lisa.
Yet another Lisa chiming in.
Since Flocke seems to have lots of Locke’s memories, he probably REMEMBERS that Jack found water in Season 1.
As for whether or not he can cross water without a boat/plane… I think we confirmed this last night. Sawyer made a point of mentioning to Kate that they would have to swim to the boat. Don’t you think that Flocke would have cut out the middleman and retrieved the boat himself… maybe even using it to sail away forever… if only he could get to it.
I agree I think flocke is lying!!
Also, didn’t Christian show up in a hospital off the island? I’m smelling a line of BS from smokey. Don’t know what it means though.
I believe Flocke when he says he was Jacks dad. I think Jack just saw his dad in the hospital off the island because he was all f**ked up on drugs and he was recalling what he saw on the island. I don’t believe the ghost was smokey at the hospital but just a drugged out hallucination.
Even though the smoke detector was going berserk?
Here is what I think about the Chrisitan sightings. When we see Christian w/out shoes it’s the real Christian and when we saw Christian with black shoes on, it’s Flocke!
And if Flockey can scan memories/minds-well there you go!
Actually, when Jack first saw Christian at the hospital he wasn’t drinking or taking pills yet. That same night he asked his colleague for a prescription for Clonozipam. Jack had told Charlie in the caves that it is for hallucinations. It is after the hallucinations that Jack started drinking. I almost think that it was Jacob playing Christian so Jack would want to go back to the island?? Maybe? And to someone’s earlier post about the message to Jack… it was Charlie who told Hurley to tell Jack that “he wasn’t supposed to raise him”.. so we all assume Aaron and not “raising John from the dead” for MIB.
I don’t believe for a second that the ghost of Jack’s father was really Smokey back in season one. I think Smokey was lying to Jack about that. I believe Smoky was Eko’s brother…and the poisonous spiders that killed Nikki and Paulo…and Richard’s wife in the ship…but I definitely don’t believe that Smokey was Jack’s dead dad.
Actully the spiders didn’t kill Nikki and Paulo. They paralyzed them and then they were buried alive because the Losties thought they were dead.
And don’t forget…he was probably Ben’s daughter when Ben went to face him/it
On the Nikki and Paulo thing. During the episode Vincent kept trying to pull the tarp off of them because he new they werent dead. I know he is just a dog but I have always thought there is something more to Vincent. But I do also agree with the earlier comment about Seasons 1-3 not mattering anymore. Wish they would have stuck to the Ben vs Widmore, Locke vs Jack, Others vs Losties stroyline.
So…Des is not dead, right? Also did I see a flicker of the non-zombiefied Sayid in there as Desmond asked him about Nadia?
I totally saw that non-zombie-fied Sayid-when Des asked about Nadia and when FLock asked him about whether or not he had killed Des.–Hope for a better karma for Sayid? Also, I loved Sawyer’s comment on “drinking Locke’s Kool-aid”–sometimes the writers can be brilliant–at other times, it seems to be groping for momentum.
You’re assuming Sayid is talking about Nadia…He could also be talking about Shannon. All he said was he lost someone he loved and she was dead. This applies to both women…I’m not saying it’s NOT Nadia, but it could be either women.
i agree. i think des woke sayid up.
We have pretty much established that the freighter was, by the time it blew up, inside the radius of the islands craziness and moving around. That’s how Michael’s ghost could be trapped on the island and how Jin could have been moved with the island through time.
AND what about Jack seeing his father away from the island in the hospital??? What about that?? Was that Fake Locke also?? If so, how did he get off the island, AND if he is stuck on the island and cannot get off, how did he pull that off?? HUH,
Christian also showed himself to Jack in the waiting room of his office.
I think when this is over we will find out that Jack, his “son” Daniel, Christian and Grandpa Ray are all the same person: Jack.
Oooh – good point…Smokey can’t cross water, correct? That’s why he had to send Sawyer over to Hydra Island.
Not the best, but better than “What Kate Did.” I guess I understand why MIB would appear to Jack and Claire as Christian Shephard. But why appear as CS to (the actual) John Locke (as he did in the donkey wheel room)? Locke had no connection to CS. Why not appear as Boone, or one of the other castaways?
I can only think that Jacks father and Locke was literally brought to the island dead…? Maybe thats why he took their form? Just a guess.
Good point.
But he also appeared to Eko as Yemi. Was Yemi dead when he arrived on the island? And if so, why could he switch forms then, but not now?
And along with everyone else, I also wonder about the appearances of CS off island (on the boat, or on the mainland). I didn’t think Smokey could travel across water (or leave the island)?
I believe Yemi was probably dead. He had been shot right before being thrown on the plane, so he more than likely died en route to the island. Thus, landing on the island dead.
You are right. That is the common denominator
It can’t just be people that were dead before their bodies arrived on the island. Remember that after judging Ben in Season 5, Smokey then took the form of Alex to get Ben to do whatever Locke asked.
On this same topic, Damon and Carlton stated in one of the podcasts that Smokey has only been ‘stuck’ as Locke since Jacob was killed…
Yemi is an interesting sidebar. Guam and the flight path from Australia to LA, that’s the Pacific. Presumably, the current location of the island. Yemi, that was, uh, where, Liberia, maybe? Anyway, Africa for sure. A long long long long way from even an ocean facing African country, and way too far for that plane to make it to a Pacific isle with the amount of gas that plane could carry. Did Locke see it when they were time-flashing? In which case, at that time, they must have been in the Atlantic, or the Indian Ocean, depending on which country they took off from. Just a sidebar. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Had this been a real comment, et cetera.
He appeared as Christian to Locke so that Locke would take the message back to Jack that his dad said hello. He (MIB or Jacob?) knew that the only thing that would “hook” Jack to return to the island would be his dead Dad’s ghost.
Great thought.. That makes sense.
Yemi’s plane could easily have crashed on the island if the island was in a different location at that time.
How about sometimes Christian is one of the jungle’s guilty-conscience ghost whisperers?
Because he couldn’t. He was Christian from the moment the plane crashed.
I agree. Except for the time he appeared as Yemi to Eko in season 2. Remember when he said, “You speak to me as if I am your brother?” just before he thrashed Eko through the jungle?
I am, of course, assuming that Smokey was Yemi. But I can think of no other explanation.
Sorry. That was Season 3. My bad.
I remember the last of Mr. Eko. I also remember other instances when Smokey killed with cold blood. Considering that, how could he be good? He surely can take form of all dead people and manipulate them any way he wishes. I’m glad he’s stuck with Locke now, at least they know how he looks like for now
I think he took the form of a dead polar bear too!
Smokey killed Eko for the same reason he wanted Desmond dead – uncorruptable, no regrets, no way to manipulate.
J’ification,
Good call, I think. The first time Locke and Eko encountered the smoke monster, neither one showed fear or ran away. The second time Eko encountered smokey, he DID run away and was killed. Fearlessness does appear to neutralize smokey.
umm, are we forgetting the absence of CS’s body when Jack found the coffin, yet with Locke, you could see the two guys right next to each other
He was CS at the FDW to get Locke to convince Jack to go back to the Island.
Agreed. And I think he’s unable to change forms now because of the creation of the Sideways World, which contains a living Locke. I think that’s blocking his shape-shifting ability.
@ brian
Ilana said that the smoke monster can’t change forms anymore because he was in the form of Locke when Jacob died – and now that Jacob is dead he is stuck
Did she? I thought she left it vague.
Or that she had said he was stuck, but didn’t say why at all.
That’s correct, Brian. She didn’t say why he was stuck, just that he is now.
If you want clarification of what Ilana said about Smokey being stuck, listen to official Lost podcast. Damon and Carlton tell you exactly what Ilana meant.
maybe before jacob died he was able to cross water. he couldn’t leave the island space but he could cross water within it.
he appeared to him as christian because he knew he would tell jack that they met and that would work to his advantage
He appeared as Christian so that when Locke told Jack he saw him, Jack would believe in going back to the island. And THAT is the one thing that got Jack flying on flights to hope his plane crashed. So appearing as Christian was the perfect thing to do in the donkey wheel room with Locke.
Ah. I forgot about that. Yes, that makes sense.
Aaannnnd, CS also said to Locke in the donkey wheel room, right before time flashed again “say hello to my son”. And also, wasn’t there an easter egg in one of the dvds that showed CS right after the crash of 815 summoning Vincent to “now, go wake up my son”?
yes, i remember seeing CS sending vincent to wake up Jack…
If MIB took Christian and Locke’s form on the island, why isn’t anyone asking themselves why Eloise insisted that Jack “must” bring Locke’s body back to the island? Is there a connection there??
I’m still thinking that Eloise may have some type of deal with MIB? I mean, if this Sideways world is MIB manufactured, and Ms. Hawking gets her son back??? I think a mother would do just about anything for her child? Right? Maybe?
Didn’t “Christian” tell Locke he had to die? And why did Locke’s body have to wear Christian’s shoes on the plane back to the island?
oooh interesting. a deal with the mib to get daniel back.
Which, coincidentally, is the same deal he made with Sayid. Assuming MIB’s plan somehow involves merging the 2 realities where he can be free in the (because the Island’s sunk and Jacob is gone) then Sayid would flash to the reality where…dramatic pause…Nadia is alive! Presto! She’s back from the dead. This also explains how he promised Claire he would get Aaron back for her, if she flashes to sideways world she’s still pregnant and gets a second chance to raise Aaron. And with her newfound family to help! If that’s the plan, then maybe MIB isn’t the complete liar we think he is.
I think MIB tells the truth when it serves him. He may be telling the truth, but he can’t be trusted.
Smokey appeared as Christian to Locke as part of his long con. Remember that he told Locke “tell my son I said hello”. It was this statement that Locke made to Jack that made up Jack’s mind to return to the island.
Did anyone find it interesting in that scene when Locke asked CS to help him up, and CS told him he could not do that, as if he couldnt touch the guy at all? Hmmmm….
Maybe it was Jacob, and he didn’t want to make Locke immortal?
He appeared as Christian to Locke because he told Locke to tell his son “Hi” for him, and that was the thing that really got Jack to finally listen to Locke and agree to go back.
I think that once someone is buried Smokey cannot inhabit the body – Yemi, Christian and Alex were not buried on the island and Locke wasn’t buried at the time Smokey inhabited his body. But now that Lockes body has been buried Smokey is trapped in Locke’s form.
My theory here is that he can’t take on any other bodies because Jacob is dead and Smokey and Jacob actually used to be the same person. Crazy, I know, but think about it. Black/white. Good/Evil. We don’t know the man in black’s name – they have never said it. The man in black said that Jacob stole his body . . . meanwhile, the man in black has been stealing other peoples bodies, and all he evere wanted to do is kill Jacob. I think at one point, Jacob was at war with himself (good v evil) and literally divided himself in half – casting out the evil part of himself (aka smokey – man in black). Little did he know, this evil force would inhabit someone and try to take over the island, and eventually the world. Now he’s stuck in Locke’s body because he killed his original body (Jacob). Hope that makes sense.
The reunion was beautiful and worth waiting for. Loved Jack’s son moments.
the sun and jin reunion was SORELY lacking
I agree, hey I missed the middle of the episode, did Sayid do the deed?
He said he did, but I don’t buy it.
Of course he didn’t. They would have showed it if he had. Can you imagine Desmond getting shot by Sayid, and them not showing it? Since when has Lost not loved some good old sudden death shock value?
Didn’t it kind of look like Sayid WANTED to take Smokey back to that well? Maybe push HIM down it? Like maybe ol’ Des had given him some new intel on everything playing out?
In last week’s preview, there was a clear flash at the end of Sayid’s gun, which was pointed directly at Desmond. But tonight’s episode cut the scene before that moment, so…tease?
I noticed that the show — unlike the preview — did not show Sayid’s gun actually being fired. Always a bit annoyed when the preview has material not in the episode itself.
i’m thinking desmond has the opposite effect on sayid that mib did. sayid let him talk and his soul is now infultrated again….with redemption.
Prediction, and no idea how it will come about, but very ready for it: Zoey’s death will be gruesome. But — how? The floor is open, anyone with an inkling please share.
snortwood: can’t wait for Zoey’s death. Kate take her out? Maybe Sawyer. Or better yet, Smokey thrashes her around in the jungle.
Snortwood: Regarding Zoey’s death. I’m hoping she’s the one that time-flashing Juliet shot when the outrigger was being pursued back in Season 5.
I think the “Anakin” reference was a big deal here … Desmond asks Sayid what he would tell his love about how he got her back. That was his moment to decide if he would “come back from the dark side.” Of course, he didn’t kill Desmond. So there must be good in him still. So many Star Wars references this season, and I haven’t figured out what they’re supposed to clue us into.
Pretty sure Sayid didn’t kill Desmond, came back from “the dark side,” helped Desmond out of the well, and possibly made a fake grave (That’s why he took such a long time to return). Sayid will return to being Jack’s second banana Dr. Watson in no time.
@snortwood, yeah somebody please shoot Zoe. she totally sucks
Snortwood,
Maybe they make Zoe take a shower, and when all the dirt comes off you find that there was never anything else there.
the star wars stuff is hinting that they are all gonna die in one massive explosion when they blow up the energy on hydra island!
not only was it lacking….it will be very short lived
what is Desmonds purpose in the alt? If he does reconnect everyone with their island memories what will he accomplish other than make everyone remember each other? Its not like Jack can start screaming “We have to go baaaack” the island is at the bottom of the ocean. Cant wait till all of this is over. One last random thought. Adam and Eve will turn out to be someone from Jacob and Mib’s past. Someone who has no connection to the characters we care about. It will be another answer that will leave us feeling a little empty.
Nah, Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard…at least, that’s been my thought for several seasons now. Even more so when we saw them “retired” on the island at the end of Season 5.
Faraday convinced Desmond that the off-island timeline is somehow not right, that they should be living different lives. Desmond is trying to restore the “right” timeline (don’t ask me how), whether that’s the on-island timeline or some amalgamation of the two.
We know that energy events on the island can cause it to jump through time, maybe as a self-protection mechanism. Perhaps the code entered in the computer at the Swan released the built-up energy and prevented the island from jumping. For the ‘Adam and Eve’ mystery to have a really good pay-off, it has to be two characters we know, probably affected by the island’s jumping behavior. I would think it would not be Rose and Bernard – Rose was also healed by the island and therefore probably cannot die on the island. Who knows, maybe it’s Nicki and Paulo.
Ya cuz we had to hear about how they miss each other EVERY episode for 2 seasons. I was hoping Sun would get obliterated when she ran by the force fields only to be sorely disappointed. In my opinion, she is the only bad actress on the show which makes her stick out. Her talking about Jin is almost as bad as “Walt.. where’s my son?”
Yeah, I thought they both were going to get hit by the fence. Why wasn’t it on?
Idk I would certainly make sure the fence was off before running into it full speed but what do I know
Zoe told them to turn it off.
Yes, but they ran through the fence maybe 10 seconds after she said that, I would try to get some confirmation before hurling myself head first. I didn’t hear a sound that indicated it was off. Thank god the guy running the fence wasn’t on a bathroom break
There was a sound that indicated it was off.
I expected they would stand close to each other on both side of the fence for at least few seconds, waiting for the fence to be turned off, saying something romantic and then hug and kiss when it’s finally off. I don’t usually care for romantic scenes, but they haven’t seen each other for 2-3 years.. I was dissapointed.
Biscuit – Bad actress? I happen to think she’s one of the best actresses on the show.
Agreed, Jimmy H. And can I just say that I thought Sun, lying in that hospital bed, holding Jin’s hand, looked more beautiful than I’ve ever seen her look? Seriously, watch it again. She was stunning.
Sun isn’t a bad actress, she just has a bad storyline and not-great writing. I think she’s pretty good, actually.
Now Nadia, that’s a pretty terrible actress. Horrible line readings.
Nothing’s as bad as “Waaaaaallttt!!”
Um hello … as long as Zoe has a breath in her body, Sun will never hold the worst actress title. And yes, her skin was amazing in that hospital bed scene. I almost never look that good after being shot in the gut …
I didn’t know Walt had a son. lol jk
Great, great episode. Came off like watching an action movie. I am the biggest fan of Lost out there and usually love everything they give us but I was very, very, very, very disappointed in the Jin Sun reunion. It was just too quick. Where was the slow mo piano? My wife was happy with it though and made me type that.
I agree with you that the reunion was too quick, and I even missed the piano! Remember in the first two seasons when there would be wonderful reunions on the beach with hugging and smiles and that great music? That’s what I was hoping for with Sun and Jin.
Well it must have worked for me because I was crying. It was so wonderful.
it was fast! only slightly longer than the awkward alex/rousseau meeting.
did anyone else think as jin and sun ran to each other that the writers intended to make it look like the sonic fence wouldn’t get turned off in time? i thought to myself if we’ve been waiting all this time and one of them blows up i’m going to be pissed.
I was SOBBING. It didn’t leave me wanting more, even though I can understand what you’re saying. But I feel like if anyone has a true love story in their arc, it’s those two. Maybe Darlton figured that their back story, and how much they obviously love each other would be enough to fuel the reunion, and that they didn’t need to resort to mood music and slow-mo to establish a realistic moment. And I think they were 100% right.
It worked for me — if only because it was realistic that their reunion would be cut short by some element of further danger. You know, “just when you think it’s safe” and all that. I think there will be more reunion/romance to come, a private moment between Jin and Sun as action-scene-relief in the finale.
Or maybe Widmores pylons aren’t as powerful as the full sized model?
Yeah, when I pictured the Jin/Sun reunion in my mind over the past two seasons, I always imagined there would be a LOT less Zoe. Ugh!
I know!!
Yes! She’s really starting to annoy me. She’s like a messed up Tina Fey minus the comedy IMO.
Mary, I’m with you. Zoe must go, and the sooner and the bloodier the betterer.
hate Zoe
I completely agree Snortwood.
I don’t really find Zoe annoying. She’s sort of just there. Now the one I found REALLY annoying was Ilana. I was actually glad when she blew up. I was really & royally po’d when I saw that smug face return tonight.
Illana used to bug me. Fake Tina Fey BUGS me. Bring back Nicki and Paulo.
I’m thinking Zoe’s getting Charles Bronson’d by the “Man-Thing” next week. We’ve already seen him/it off one guy in the preview.
OMG – I’m dying! I totally thought she looked like a fake Tina Fey!!! Zoey BUGS the cr@p out of me!!!
TOTALLY agree with the Fake Tina Fey reference… it’s watching like Tina Fey pretending to be the worst actress EVER!!
agree, lost mama.
I thought for sure one of them was going to die because of those barrier things. I mean no one from the original plane has really died yet so I was waiting for it. Same with Claire shooting Kate.
Becoming more and more likely that Claire is Smokey’s mom. Crazy mother, but she’s a survivor.
Snortwood: I have been trying to figure out how that could work myself since Smokey said that is Mother was crazy. Could he be Aaron? Is that why Claire appeared to Kate and told her not to bring him back to the island? I am just thinking out loud here.
Maybe the kid that keeps following Flocke is himself as a boy. The Aaron comments got me thinking … hmm.
I’ve thought for a while that Smokey is Aaron. When he described why he was lying to keep Claire away from Aaron, it seemed completely clear to me. But I make things up sometimes….
Remember when the others used to try to kidnap Aaron from Claire at the campsite; someone said Aaron was very important to the island. I have felt like whatever is in Locke right now is Aaron. Maybe they were trying to keep tabs on Aaron because they knew of his mystical future as the MIB. Or, maybe even Aaron died in childbirth and the MIB claimed the baby’s dead body way back when.
Was I the only one REALLY worried that the “boundary pylons” were turned on? I had this vision of them being so excited to see each other that they’d run through the pylons and fall to the ground bleeding from the ears. Egads!
Yeah I was totally thinking that was going to happen!
I thought that too, and would have been SOOO pissed lol
I don’t know if Jack was smart to turn back or if Sawyer was dumb to go to Widmore too soon. I think it was a good ep overall. Loved the Sun/Jin reunion and was heartbroken at Sawyers face during it!
I agree, I thought the episode was great. But, I’ve been a huge fan of almost all of them this season. I still think island Claire has some nastiness up her sleeve.
ya i was hoping kate gave claire the butt of the gun when she got on the boat lol
Don’t you think that Locke could have had this up his sleeve to get her into Widmore’s camp. It seem obvious.
Yeah, I kind of wish Hurley or someone was there in between both of them when they talked about going back or going forward. Ultimately, I’m siding with Sawyer that going forward was and is in their best interest AT THE TIME. But I think Jack has a valid point. It just didn’t make sense for him to go back then. He doesn’t have to get on that sub. And he could have taken the extra time to get the other Losties, including Sawyer, to see it his way. Sawyer was waffling there. But as we saw ultimately they should not be anywhere near Flocke and Widmore’s missiles. Both those knuckleheads were right…and a bit wrong?
I don’t think Jack is really going to try and get Sawyer to do anything anymore after he got Juliet killed.
jack is letting people make their own decisions now. i thought he was the smarter of the two in that scenario though. this time it is sawyer being impulsive and jack stepping back to question things. he makes a great point: there must be some reason flocke wants them all off the island so bad.
Except they’ve all seen that thing kill people, right? Jack is correct in the theory that maybe they shouldn’t leave but come on you can’t tell me he doesn’t have to convince some of these people that no it’s not best that you get the hell away from an island with smoke monsters?
Sawyer’s look of pain and anguish at the Jin/Sun reunion was wonderful…That deserved a few more seconds of airtime.
definitley agree with you!!!! I felt soo bad for him…
i know, what a heartbreaking moment.
This is a good question. But maybe they were both right. Sawyer to the sub to get Kate and Sun and Jin, and maybe even Claire off the island. Jack to the Island to fulfill his destiny.
I like singing.but not just singers.singing can make us laughing and happy.http://ledlightshop.wordpress.com/
Ya the Jin/Sun reunion was kinda gay. I wanted to cry!
Who uses terms like “kinda gay”
I hope that by saying that you mean totally awesome…
i think gay = happy and awesome. at least i hope thats what amanda meant. then it was very gay. hooray gay.
Funny, I thought it was kinda Amanda, in that it sucked.
That was hilarious, Matt.
tooooo funny!!!!! LOL.
ha ha ha
Kinda “gay”…As in happy? Or do you have difficulty with expressing how you really feel without using inappropriate euphemism.
Only an a-hole says “kinda gay” as a put-down.
Oy! PC complaints along with the term “a-hole” in the same post…
,Kinda gay means it was stupid , just like gay people. Chill out antigay haters.
I thought “Kinda Gay” meant that you kinda like a-holes.
The conversation between Hurley and Sawyer about the Dark Side had me laughing out loud. Anakin Skywalker came back from the Dark Side. As a Star Wars geek, I love how Hurley always finds a way to bring Star Wars into the story.
If you don’t think that’s a huge hint as to what’s going to/has happened to Sayid, then you’re wrong. There’s still some Anakin in our black tank-top wearing friend.
Maybe he’ll come back as a ghost then, lol!
“Who in the hell is Anakin?”
Come on, Sawyer!
Give the guy a break…his TV only got Little House on a Prairie
Ha! Good point.
I also remembered that young James Ford he was dealing with some pretty heavy stuff around the time “Star Wars” came out.
Sawyer did call another character Chewie before, so he should know who anakin is.
Maybe Sawyer only saw the original Star Wars (A New Hope), and never the sequels or the crappy prequels. *shrugs*
Well he certainly missed EP III as he was in the Dharma past at that point…
and they TOTALLY played star wars-like music this episode!
The opening scene music reminded me of Luke on the sail barge from Return of the Jedi.
Sayid is totally Darth Vader to Flocke’s Darth Sidious.
My immediate thought when Sawyer asked “who’s Anakin?” was that Sawyer is still in the 70′s.
FLocke about Locke: “Locke was just a loser”
how the &$@*&! dare you, Smoke Monster! Don’t you insult one of the best tv character ever!
grrrrr
Locke said that about himself. This IS Locke, people. Don’t let him fool you for a second.
i can’t really see Locke is Locke. explain.
I disagree completely with the flawed theory of fake Locke and Locke being the same person. 1. Locke’s body was buried. 2. FLocke recognized Richard and repeated a line he said MANY years earlier. 3. Everyone immediately recognized that this was NOT Locke. I really don’t know how this became a theory.
coopuh…”nothing stays buried on this island”.
If that were true, Nikki and Paulo would be back by now. Besides, MIB was using Locke’s appearance BEFORE he was buried. Lest we forget S5′s finale where Locke’s corpse revealed to everyone that this man/monster is NOT John Locke.
Wouldn’t it be very Lost if at the end of the day (fake)John Locke is John Locke fighting to get out overpowering MIB’s control. I can totally see it.
I never thought about this until reading tvguy’s comment, but I can totally see it now. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that sideways Jack is currently trying to fix Locke while “simultaneously” (if you can consider it that), Jack has chosen to go back to Flocke. I think that when Sideways Jack fixes Locke, all of Locke will break through and Smokey could be defeated (maybe with some help from Sayidakin—yep, that’s what I’m calling him now, because he’s not all the way back to being Sayid yet). The question is, what happens after that?
I’d love this twist, that FakeLocke was really RealLocke the whole time. But this “locke” person, whoever he is, kills people for no reason, and thus isn’t really worth idolizing… so I hope that he’s a fake, because the real John Locke was awesome and not-very-killy (except that one lady from the freighter… and his dad…)
HAAA! I’ll cut a b8tch for talking bad about Locke.
It makes sense. Smokey thinks Locke was a fool because Smokey has been conning Locke from Day 1. First as the “beautiful” Smoke Monster, then as Christian who “speaks for Jacob” and tells Locke he has to turn the wheel and die. Total set up. Yet John Locke may not turn out to be such a fool in the end, but it is easy to see why Smokey would think so.
Totally agree with you. I think Smokey has has been playing him all the way. John just wanted some higher purpose that he was sucked in by a stranger’s offer of candy. Kind of a dope in my mind.
I don’t know what I think of this idea of FLocke and Locke being one and the same, but here’s what bugged me: FLocke told Jack that Locke was a sucker, a dope, etc, and that was true to a limited extent. However, if my memory served me correctly, Locke was one of the only people who ever faced Smokey in all his smokey-ness without fear. I really think Smokey can’t handle it when people have no fear of him – didn’t you notice how unnerved Flocke got last week when he realized Desmond knew who he was and yet wasn’t afraid of him? So he pushed him down a well and sent Sayid to finish him off, just as he arranged to have Locke murdered. I think John Locke is the Kryptonite to Smokey’s Superman, and his re-awakening, whatever that entails, will be the death of Smokey.
If there is one thing that has to happen before this series ends the real John Locke needs to have his view of the island vindicated. I have no doubt this will happen, and underestimating the real John Locke will lead to MIB’s downfall.
No I think Flocke pushed Des down the well because he didn’t want Des trying to work the worlds together from the island timeline. Also it balanced Des hitting Locke. I think because Smokey is inhabiting Locke, that he is becoming more like him…maybe if he stays like John too long, he’ll be completely stuck. Thats why Des said he was John Locke.
MDS…on the same page as you. Locke will be MIB’s downfall. Then I think the real John Locke will take MIB’s place. The Island is what he loves most.
Desmond is the key to pull the timelines together. FLocke sees this. Between the flashbacks and the flashfowards, and the flashsideways..there is a common thread between the people….look closer my peeps and you will see it. I`m not going to give it away..I may be wrong..but I think not…..Jack is going to be the “chosen one” and the boy we see on the island…is Jack`s son David. that`s all I`m giving until next week…I love you all…for loving this show like I do…
And the Christian that Jack saw in the hospital late night after getting off the island, when he was dating Kate and first started losing it?
Nevermind, totally got beat on my ‘Christian sighting’ moment. Carry on.
Damn, it’s getting gooooooood.
Doc, we are gonna need you during our break from LOST.
Yo, I’ve been saying Christian Shephard is an incarnation of Smokey for-EVAH. I wants me some credit.
I’m intrigued that Sayid is apparently not entirely lost to the dark side, as we all know he did NOT kill Des…
No He saved him…
Am I the only one out there thinking the timeline here is messed up? The Locke accident was in the Hurley episode, which took place about a week after the flight, and Sun was shot a day or two after the flight, yet they were both at the hospital at the same time. This seems like a pretty big coninuity error, unless the Locke scene somehow took place before all the Hurley stuff.
Locke getting shot is day 7 of the alt time, Sun getting shot is day 3. Yep big error there.
Well, who’s to say when he went and smashed up Locke? We’re assuming it was the Hurley episode but maybe it wasn’t. And how do we know when Hurley’s episode happened?
Well Desmond said it was about a week after the Oceanic 815 flight, and seeing as how the Locke rundown happened in that episode, it would stand to reason that incident took place at least a week after the flight landed.
Skip-
I see your point, but I think what Bev was saying is that, just because the SideLocke rundown took place during the Hurley episode, doesn’t necessarily mean that it took place in the same frame of time.
Meaning that Desmond’s interactions with Hurley in “Everybody Loves Hugo” may have happened a few days AFTER Des had run over Locke.
I see what you’re saying, but the only episode in the entire series that has dealt with time in that manner was Ji Yean, and even that wasn’t even analogous to this situation. I don’t mean that as a complaint or arguement, I’m just curious if I’m seeing this wrong.
Thanks for clearing that up Ceballos. That’s exactly what I meant.
When Desmond hits Locke in the parking lot, his license plate is different than when he is stalking Hurley & Libby’s date. So, yeah, good catch that they are showing us the scenes out of order in “Everybody Loves Hugo.” Des probably switched cars after he hit Locke and then went on with his rounding up all the 815ers, including Hurley.
Considering that many of the sideways stories are being woven in during different episodes I don’t think we can really determine if there is an error. Honestly, I think many of them are supposed to be occurring at the same time.
Well Desmond is wearing the same clothes in every episode, he hasn’t change clothe or take a bath in a week?
It’s obvious Freddy, he’s European!
i think time is a very very relative thing in the alternate timeline. maybe because it’s not real at all and doesn’t need to obeys the laws of time.
We need a Timelordto explain it to us. Oh Doctor, where are you?
lol, isn’t that what Gregg Nations is paid for?
Or they could just put the V clock back up in the corner to tell us what day it is during the Sideways flashes
LOL @Michelle
Maybe you’re right – after all Hurley kept saying he met Libby at “Night” and we clearly saw it was in the daytime!
His TARDIS is in the shop for repairs.
There are a lot of things not “real” about sideways reality. You’re right about the timeline, but I don’t know that it’s a writer mess-up.
Let it go. Assume it doesn’t matter.
That’s the right attitude. It may indeed be an error, but not an important one. So Jin was in custody for a few days or Keemy didn’t show up right away. It’s not what they showed, but would it really matter?
It matters if it gives us a clue as to the nature of sideways.
Yeah, though perhaps Jin and Sun spent a week boffing in bed before Keamy showed up. And Sayid spent a week sleeping on his brother’s couch.
That is the first item here that has made any sense regarding the timelines. I think people are trying to find too much meaning. Great comment Lisa.
I was thinking the same thing about the sideways time line. Locke came back from Australia, got fired from his job, met with Hurley and got the job as a substitute. All of this didn’t happen in 2 days which is when Sun got shot…the day after the flight landed…..
This brings up a different question. Does the flight of Oceanic 815 make any sense timewise?
It took off IIRC from Sydney in the morning, flew east (away from the sun) was in daylight when the flight crashed on The Island in the middle of the Pacific and it was still daylight when the alternate flight landed at “LA X”. Shouldn’t it have been night at SOME point?
The Island can not be seen by radar. The plane that crashed there was doomed. What does it say about the island? We are getting off task thinking this is about the people who come to the island, but it`s main focus is the island itself, no matter what timeline. Because time doesn`t matter on the island. it`s just happenstance that these people`s plane crashes on the island. Just like it was when the black rock crashed from a stormy sea. (In another time frame). Doesn`t matter…It`s happened over and over in time…we (the viewers) just see what happens in our own present day time, even though we have discovered history on the island!!! What about (“Adam and Eve)” in the caves? Just think about it……..
How did Desmond word it? Did he tell Hurley “We were on the same flight a week ago” or did he say “We were on the same flight last week”. Maybe they landed Saturday and he ran into Hurley on Monday or Tuesday.
Smokey couldn’t have been Christian. Was Jacob’s cabin NOT surrounded by the black ash that keeps him out? How could he have been in there with Claire?
ALSO, a while back I read an interview with Damon & Carlton and they talked about the dead people and living people on the island since they grouped them into those two categories. When someone asked about Christian they called him ‘undead.’
Well, remember we saw that the circle of ash was broken and that Ilana said that Jacob hadn’t been there in a while…I’d suggest that’s how he got in. Or out.
It seems that the cabin wasn’t Jacob’s at all. It was always Man in Black in there, the ash was to keep him trapped. Ben and locke never saw Jacob (when Locke heard “Help Me”). It was MIB.
@Michelle Except that he was out being the smoke monster and CS and Yemi, etc from the beginning, while the ashes were still intact, so he wasnt trapped in the cabin
ahhh, you are right BD!
Yeah, but that business with the cabin and ash doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t because in the Pilot Smokey killed the plane captain, so he was out of the cabin when the show started. Hurley tripped and broke the ash circle, after Locke and Ben originally visited the cabin and talked to someone, that someone saying “help”. Unless the scene with a voice in the cabin said “help” after the circle got broken. Maybe it was meant for Jacob to use, but MIB got in after the circle got destroyed. …. spooky, it’s too late to think about the cabin
If you watch some of the episodes where Christian is seen there are several times when the sounds of Smokey are heard before he appears. Didn’t that happen before Sun and Lapidus saw him at the barracks?
WRT Smokey in the cabin, two things have been left unclear, so anything is possible. 1) we don’t know if the ash was keep Smokey in or Smokey out. 2) It is not at all certain that Hugo broke the ash circle. It could have already been broken when he tripped or he may not have disrupted it at all. So it is quite possible (and my belief) that Smokey was Christian in the cabin and was also free to be Christian elsewhere on the island. I don’t think he was Chirstian in the hospital however. There are plenty of other possibilities for that.
who says it is keeping him out; maybe the circle of ash was keeping him IN the cabin