Confused by the 'Lost' premiere? Never fear! Damon and Carlton explain a few things about the start of Season 6 (SPOILERS AHEAD)

Warning, SPOILERS ahead. If you haven’t seen the season premiere of Lost yet, you might not want to continue past the jump yet. Lost fans who have now seen the premiere can read ahead for some explanation from Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. (Comments are likely to be full of spoilers also, you’ve been warned again.)

Once upon a time in Germany, a very smart and spiritual man tried to answer a very tricky and troubling question. In a world created by an allegedly benevolent and omnipotent God, why the heck is there suffering and evil? In the world of philosophy, this field of inquiry is called Theodicy, generally defined as an attempt to understand and justify the behavior of God. The genius German dude thought long and hard about this “problem of evil” question and came up with an answer that was unusually heady for the time. He said that despite the existence of evil, this world is actually “the best of all possible worlds,” as if our universe is the least offensive of countless alternatives, or even a pastiche comprised of pieces from the best parts of all. Wild.

Over the next 300 years, physicists, philosophers, and science fiction writers have blown out Gottfried Leibniz’s “possible worlds” concept in many different radical, challenging directions to serve all sorts of scientific and intellectual purposes, their various nuanced permutations producing a slough of different, seemingly synonymous yet not necessarily equal terms. Parallel worlds. Many worlds. Alternate realities. Mirror realities. Modal realities. Pocket universes. Bubble universes. And my favorite, “Island universes,” because it reminds me of a TV show I’m supposedly writing about, one that has referenced perhaps the foremost philosopher in this field, David Lewis.

Today, there are eggheads who believe that these “island universes” or whatnot are real — that they exist somewhere, as real and concrete as “our world,” inhabited by variations of ourselves. Naturally, this assertion has invited intense debate. Where are these worlds? Can we find them? If so, can we access them? Communicate with them? Visit them? Is there one “official world” and all the others of deviations? Did all these worlds pop into being at the same time, or do we continually create new worlds with every choice and non-choice? If so, do the other versions of you that exist across the multiverse of worlds create new worlds with their choices and non-choices, too? And who are these other “yous,” anyway? Are you separate, unique individuals? Do you share consciousness and/or a soul? Are you and your other yous destined to reach similar fates, played out through different events or circumstances? Are you and your other yous unique entities with unique destinies? Yes? No? Who knows? What does any of this Fringe-sounding s— have anything to do with Lost?!?!

Maybe everything. Maybe… nothing! Maybe something somewhere in the middle. What’s definitely for certain is this: If you’ve seen the season premiere of Lost (final SPOILER ALERT now!), you now know the hush-hush new storytelling device for the final season is this whole notion of parallel worlds. We were presented with two of them: one in which Oceanic 815 never crashed; and another that keeps continuity with the past five years of Lost having all the characters trapped in the Dharma Initiative past magically uploaded to the Island present of 2007 where the Jacob-Fake Locke-Ben drama is all going down. I’ll have a lot more to say on this tomorrow AM in my recap. But before then, I bring you news from two guys who you probably MOST want to hear from right now: Lost exec producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof. My “Totally Lost” partner Dan Snierson and I sat down with them to talk about the year’s”flash-sideways” storytelling device. Jokes Damon Lindelof: “You [had] all these fundamental mysteries going into season 6. What’s the Monster? What’s the Island? Why is Richard Alpert not able to age? But here’s this new mystery. How dare they! How dare they present us with a new mystery at this late stage in the game!”

Fortunately, here are the producers to offer some assurance of answers and provide some helpful context for season 6.

EW: The whole idea of flash-sideways and the plan to use season 6 to show us a world where Oceanic 815 never crashed — how long has that been in the works? Why did you want to do it?
DAMON LINDELOF: It’s been in play for at least a couple of years. We knew that the ending of the time travel season was going to be an attempt to reboot. And as a result, we [knew] the audience was going to come out of the “do-over moment” thinking we were either going start over or just say it didn’t work and continue on. [We thought] wouldn’t it be great if we did both? That was the origin of the story.
CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each other’s stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that there’s still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each other’s lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.”
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.

That said, are you saying definitively that detonating Jughead was the event that created this new timeline? Or is that a mystery which the season 6 story will reveal?
LINDELOF: It’s a mystery. A big one.
CUSE: We did have some concern that it might be confusing kind of going into the season. To clear that up a little bit: The archetypes of the characters are the same and that’s the most significant thing. Kate is still a fugitive. If you were to look at the Comic-Con video, for instance, that now comes into play. There was a different scenario in that story. She basically blew up an apprentice plumber as opposed to killing her biological father/stepfather. Those kind of differences exist, but who the characters fundamentally are is the same. If it becomes too confusing for you, you can just follow the flash sideways for what they are. It’s not as though there’s narrative that hangs on the fact that you need to know that this event was different in that world, in the flashback world versus the sideways world. That’s not critical for being able to process the narrative this season.

Is there a relationship between Island reality and sideways reality? Will they run parallel for the remainder of the season? Will they fuse together? Might one fade away?
LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.
CUSE: But the questions you’re asking are exactly the right questions. What are we to make of the fact that they’re showing us two different timelines? Are they going to resolve? Are they going to connect? Are they going to co-exist in parallel fashion? Are they going to cross? Do they intersect? Does one prove to be viable and the other one not? I think those are all the kind of speculations that are the right speculations to be having at this point in the season.
LINDELOF: But it is going to require patience. We’ve taught the audience how to be patient thus far, so while they’re getting a lot of mythological answers on the island early in the season, this idea of what is the relationship between the two [worlds] is a little bit more of a slow burn.

Did Jughead really sink the Island? And is it possible that the Sideways characters are now caught in a time loop in which they might have to go back in time and fulfill the obligation to continuity by detonating the bomb?
LINDELOF: These questions will be dealt with on the show. Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past. But the idea of continuing to do paradoxical storytelling is not what we’re interested in this year.

There you go. Some food for thought. Dan and I will have more Messrs. Cuse and Lindelof later this week at EW.com and in the new issue of Entertainment Weekly, on sale Friday. If you’ve made it this far into this post, stay tuned: There’s a monstrously epic recap coming your way tomorrow. Until then, please: Get talking! What did you love? What did you hate? What left you totally baffled? What theories do you have to explain it all? The floor is yours!

Photo Credit: Mario Perez/ABC

More Lost:

Lost premiere recap: What’s your worldview?

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  • Anita

    I am so glad I caught up over the holiday season! I have to say Doc, you totally called the MIB/Monster being the same person. Way to go!

    • Anita

      Also, I loved that Juliet is no more. I know that sounds cruel, but I never warmed up to her as a character. Her whining and failure to stand her ground in the beginning(this changed, of course) was something I could not get behind.

      Re the missing people on the plane, I thought it was so strange that Jack’s father’s body didn’t arrive. And I kept thinking that his body somehow dropped onto the island during that bumpy period. I was thinking that in the end when the men pull Jack away, we would see him coming face to face with Christian. Can’t wait for that to happen.

      I came to Lost late (watched it from beginning to end over my Christmas break), so I’ve kinda sped through and not really immersed myself in the theories as much as others have. That being said, I always saw the show as a huge chessboard with destiny and free will the two competing players, moving around the pawns i.e. characters. I think that on the macro level, what I’ll most likely get out the show is that it’s not so easy to differentiate between the two. That they inform each other in ways we could not possibly know. On the micro level, I can’t wait to see how all the strings in this huge web flow seamlessly into one another.

      • Mark

        I miss Juliet. It was hard to see her die again.

      • Erin

        I’m glad Juliet is dead too. She was well acted by Elizabth Mitchell but it’s always been about the original lostaways for me. I happy to have her diposed of for Claire, Charlie, Boone etc.

      • Casey

        It crushed me to see Juliet die tonight.

      • Jenn

        Absolutely gutted to watch Juliet die tonight :( But at the same time her conversation with Sawyer gave me hope for her (and for them). What suddenly changed Juliet’s realization that the bomb had worked? My guess is that her talking about going out for coffee with Sawyer wasn’t just rambling. Flash-sideways, indeed.

      • Leisa

        I love Jenn’s theory, it makes total sense. This was a great episode…talk about coming back with a bang. I’m totally impressed with the MIB/Smoke Monster reveal…and what about Sayid being ‘Baptized’ then RE-BORN (???). I can hardly wait to see more next week!

      • DB

        I cried like a baby when Juliet died the first time, and I cried like a baby again when I had to see her die the second time. So cruel, Lost writers!

      • JenR

        Why didn’t they take Juliet to the temple?

      • kamikazegirl

        You’re absolutely right Anita: that sounds cruel!!

      • watched17times

        I bet they didn’t take Juliet to the temple because she was already dead instead of almost dead. Remember? Dead is Dead..hehe. Besides, Jacob did’t say to take her..only Sayid!

      • ugly Nikki

        I love the Sawyer that juliette helped shape. I miss THEM.

      • Diana

        So glad I wasn’t the only person who cried when Juliette died again. The first time was hard enough but again? Oi. Did anyone else think she was going to tell Sawyer she was pregnant before she died or was that just me?

      • Julietrules

        It was devastating to watch Juliet get pulled into that pit over and over and over….but I thought/hoped the same thing, Jenn, that Juliet’s talking about going out for coffee was NOT rambling, but real. I’m hanging in until May, but if Sawyer and Kate end up together, I will burn my LOST dvd collection.

      • Shaun

        Sorry Anita, but Juliet was a whiner? Compared to who? Shannon? Or Kate?? I don’t think so! No, KATE is the one that needed to die, no Juliet. I’ll never understand what Sawyer (or Jack) sees in Kate. It’s bad enough to “V” took Elizabeth Mitchell away, but what’s worse is that (so far) V hasn’t even been any good (aside from Mitchell herself, that is). Perhaps worst of all, Juliet’s death seems to have turned Sawyer back into a big honking jerk again. I hope that doesn’t last because it’ll make him insufferable for the rest of the series.

      • Vonvilli

        You guys shouldn’t hate on Juliet. She is the true “variable” of the show.

      • Luddite

        Jenn, I think you read my mind (or I read yours). My bet is that when Juliet died, it was only in 2007. And when she asked Sawyer to go for coffee and told Miles (posthumously) that “It worked” she was somehow seeing both possible worlds.

      • Dave

        It broke my heart to see Juliet die again. Her quiet, calm approach to almost everything made her the perfect counterbalance to the over the top characters like Sawyer, Jack & even Kate, whom I also love.

      • Charlie

        Well, she does have that other show to do…V

      • shep

        i was very saddened by juliet’s death, but i think it brought light to the situation. her post-death comments stating that it worked, leads me to the assumption that for them to leave the island their life on the island must die. That would free their soul to be focused solely on the sideways reality. i also think miles was acting awfully wierd while he was sitting there with sayid’s body, like sayid was telling him the something similar, and miles was coping with that knowledge. the thought of having to die to escape the island would be very scary. also one last thing, i think jacob has now taken on sayid’s body. thus the battle battle of jacob v man in black will continue.. those are my thoughts for now

        i dont think we have seen the last of juliet, i think she will appear off of the island, i hope so

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        I was never a fan of Juliet. As a matter of fact, I think I even declared that I hated her on a few occasions. But last season changed all that. I thought the storyline between her and Sawyer was totally poignant, and real. It just made sense that those two characters would begin to cling to each other in their situation, and then it turned into real love. Also, I though Elizabeth Mitchell was terrific, and tragic, the whole season long. I was absolutely devastated to see her die last night, even though I was expecting it.

      • kimberly

        I think Juliet wasn’t taken to the temple (or told by Jacob to be taken) because her name wasn’t on the list. She wasn’t touched by Jacob.

      • ecobfw

        Glad to see others noticed that Jacob had made yet another “list” of names. And isn’t interesting that our original lostaways weren’t on the lists right after the crash, but now their survival is imperative? I had just watched the Incident again on Monday, so watching Juliet die again and again did a number on me. But I held out hope for three things: The coffee comment, Miles hearing “it worked,” and Sayid being re-animated after Kate brings Sawyer around in the Temple. (Based on Team Darlton comments on Kimmel, one wonders how or WHO re-animated Sayid.)

      • sue

        My theory is before this show ends Sawyer is going to dig Juliet up and bring her to the temple and put her in that water and she will come back to life.

      • Alex

        I see the show as a backgammon board, not a chess board. that is also a reference to the one of the first episodes, remember Locke and Walt playing backgammon and Locke explaining the black pieces and the white pieces? Jacob and the man in black?? relevance???

      • karla K

        James was wonderful, you could see and feel his pain, we know now why Juliet died, she’s on another show.!

      • Akane

        Juliet never was a favorite for me, since the beginning we were suppose to like her but I never did, she was there OK I accepted, but when the relation with Sawyer started I just hated her, I never saw the chemistry between those two (compared with Kate and Sawyer), I think she had a better chemistry with Jack, anyway I just never liked the way Sawyer changed because of her.
        Now supposedly she is dead, I hope that is true because if at the end she comes back and her and Sawyer fall in love, I won’t buy it, not with the con-man Sawyer, I just hope she is gone for good, hey, I rather see Sawyer dead! :)

      • jj

        I agree with Sue. We have not seen the last of Juliet. Sawyer is going to dig her up and put her in the water.

      • jj

        Or– Sawyer is going to dig up Juliet and take her to the water – but all for nothing. She is not going to come back to life.

      • Nicole

        I am so w/ you Anita on that one-I could never stand Juliet and hated that she was w/ Sawyer-she was such a whiner!

      • boocat

        I loved Juliet and Sawyer together. Good chemistry. Kate and Sawyer – boring.

      • Zoey

        @Julietrules – Ditto. If the endgame is Kate/Sawyer, I will inflict some serious violence on my poor tv. I cannot STAND them together, though i like them seperately. Juliet and Sawyer were so good together, and to hear that the God damned triangle is STILL around makes me want to tear my hair out. You can’t bring that infernal shape up without tossing Sawyer’s character development out the damn window.

      • Kelvin

        I love Juliet, so upset she is gone. The show is all a dream and wasted my time I hope Sawyer marries Kate, marriage-mindedsingles

      • Babs

        But no one ever really dies there.

      • Cole

        Juliet is gone, and I agree she wasn’t the biggest player in the picture! My boyfriend thinks the bomb split the time in half, that they are in 2 places at once???? I am left very uncertain by the season premier? Is Lock really Lock? I am LOST!!!!

      • Mara

        I’m pretty sure we’ll somehow be seeing Sawyer and Juliet having coffee together and going dutch in the flash-sideways world. Wait for it.

      • skipper

        I didn’t like Juliet in the beginning. Especially when it appeared they were trying to make her a romantic interest for Jack. Then came the season of Juliet and Sawyer living with the Darma people. That changed everything I thought about Juliet. I love her and Sawyer together. They had real chemistry and it was obvious that Sawyer was madly in love with her. For that reason only, I hate that she died.

      • Jillian

        I tend to have a hard time finding female characters I can really get behind, but Juliet was it for me! Come on, guys, the girl speaks Latin and never ever hesitates to do the hard thing.

        Anyway.. As someone mentioned, Miles was acting weird when trying to “hear” Sayid… I don’t think this is due to Sayid “saying” something weird. I think it’s due to the fact that Sayid wasn’t saying anything at all!

      • Sara

        I loved Sawyer and Juliet together! Together they made each other better. I hope they do meet up in a coffee shop one day soon!

      • Allen

        I don’t think you can say Juliet is dead. She’s alive in the non-crash reality. She tells Sawyer “it worked’. What if Sawyer realises she’s alive somewhere? What would he do to get back to her?

      • itskaye

        I cried my eyes out when Juliet died. I’m all for Sawyer+Juliet. They’re perfect for each other. Pfft. Here’s hoping that they still find each other one way or another. :-)

      • Jane

        I cried my eyes out when Juliet died. I hope somehow we see her again!

      • SilverSkies

        I always liked Juliet, was saddened when she died. i think this whole concept of FLASH SIDEWAYS-that the writers are claiming,is a LIE, a distraction for the viewers, i think both the parallel stories will fuse later

      • Via

        Juliet was probably my favorite character. LOVER HER AND SAWYER TO DEATH!!! If he gets back with Kate I will be furious!!!

    • Vivi

      When the MIB/Locke disappeared, I thought he totally disappeared. Naive me. lol. Homie came back as Smokey. *shudders* Freaked me out! Then he goes, “Sorry you had to see me like that.” AWESOME!

      • KS

        When that happened, I knew that all my friends on the west coast were going to be SOOO jealous that I saw it before they did.

      • Kristin

        Jen R. – they didn’t take Juliet to the temple because “dead is dead.” If they had moved quicker – maybe – but once she died, it was over.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Just had a theory. Desmond, who can time travel (sort of), was on the plane. Then, Christian Shephard and Lock’s knives went missing off the plane. I wonder if it’s possible Desmond had something to do with it? I mean, he did look kind of weird when he was talking to Jack, like maybe he knew more than he was letting on.

      • Yenna

        Mary of course there are questions – tons of them – about Desmond’s presence on 815. Desmond from when? What does he know? That to me was by FAR the most loaded, interesting, juicy thing in the show last night. Everything else was just sort of pedestrian narrative. But Desmond on 815 – oh, the possibilities.

      • ecobfw

        I screamed when I saw Desmond. I agree, how many possibilities does this suggest? And the conversation – does that reflect the stadium meeting or something else (has history changed). Followed up by Jack’s strange lav interlude (after which Des goes missing). What was THAT about?

      • naynay

        “Sorry you had to see me like that” Best line of the night!

      • Kris

        My theory about Desmond being on the plane is that in the original story-line he crashed on the island because he was making a cross-ocean trip in a catamaran given to him by Libby. If the bomb that blew up in 1977 somehow affected Libby’s life, then she never met Desmond to give him the boat. Hence – to trip, and he’s on a plane instead of on the island in the hatch after crashing his boat. So the question is, how did the even in 1977 affect Libby’s life somehow?

      • Kris

        My theory about Desmond being on the plane is that in the original story-line he crashed on the island because he was making a cross-ocean trip in a catamaran given to him by Libby. If the bomb that blew up in 1977 somehow affected Libby’s life, then she never met Desmond to give him the boat. Hence – no trip, and he’s on a plane instead of on the island in the hatch after crashing his boat. So the question is, how did the event in 1977 affect Libby’s life somehow?

      • pocket

        I think you’re over thinking it Kris. If the island was sunk before Desmond began his cross-ocean trip, then there was no island for him to land on. So he ended up completing his journey. More interesting to me is that he was there without Penny…

      • Kris

        Pocket – because he never met Penny. When the island sunk in 1977, Charles Widmore’s life took a different path, and his daughter Penny never met Desmond. Hence, Desmond never fell in love with her and decided to race around the world to win her back. Hence, no Penny, no boat, no race, and here he is on a plane. The writers said the whole point of this final season is to show that one action – the bomb in 1977 – can have numerous consequences. It won’t just affect our little group of Losties, but everyone who ever had anything to do with the island.

      • Jeanna

        What makes you think that Juliet wasn’t ALREADY dead when she cried out from the pit? It wouldn’t be the first time a dead person spoke to a survivor.

      • Sue

        Diana ~ I agree with you, that Juliet wanted to tell Sawyer she’s pregnant. When she said, “It worked,” the audience is immediately inclined to believe that the bomb-detonation-we-changed-the-past thing worked…but I think she meant that she finally figured out a way to be pregnant on the island–and not die. Hence, “it [her experiment/research] worked.”

      • Natalie

        Juliet would never tell Sawyer that she was pregnant just as he was dying; she would never let him mourn two deaths instead of one.

      • Michelle

        He said he wants to go home… and there are all the hiroglyphics in the temple. Where is home for the shadow monster? And is his home Jacobs home? Or is Jacob his warden? Keeping the monster from the rest of the world?

      • losterly

        It’s a cool line, but didn’t make sense in this context. Ben knows what Smokey is capable of, and has some idea of limitations (the fence) – Ben used to be able to summon Smokey. He may be surprised at the true identity of Smokey and how sentient it is – that is, enough to defeat Jacob, but not surprised at killing the FOJ (Friends of Jacob).

      • Kristina

        it’s like jacob is good and MIB/Locke is evil…. home would be where evil lives right?! how creepy did he look when he said that too! it was nice to see the old locke talking to jack in the parallel world, i like him better as a good guy. or was he ever a good guy? is anyone more confused now that ever!? LOL… also losterly i think perhaps ol’ smokey has more power now that he has possessed john and defeated death… we shall see!

      • PJ

        Mary, Christian’s body never met it on to the plane; it didn’t disappear off of it.

      • Pat

        @erin “I’m glad Juliet is dead too. … but it’s always been about the original lostaways for me. I happy to have her diposed of for Claire, Charlie, Boone etc.”
        Then you don’t want Ben nor Widmore, Faraday, Desmond, etc. around either.

    • kylla

      Jack = Jacob
      Sawyer = MIB

      • Erin

        I thought the same thing!! But then I wondered if maybe it was the opposite- Jack=MIB, Sawyer=Jacob…..hmmm….twisty.

      • Nikolas

        i have read the final season will show us the “final” battle JACK vs JOHN. not sawyer.:P

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Nope. It’s a good theory, but too simple for the show. Jack and Sawyer have struggled a lot with each other over the seasons, but I think it’s safe to say that the final conflict will DEFINITELY not center on both men. Jack, of course, will be a part of it, but Sawyer’s journey is a separate one.

      • Fi

        Agreed, Mary. I think Sawyer’s true journey and growth will be in the off island storyline.

      • Mothra

        You’re forgetting Sayid! He’s the truly “evil” one of the castaways. If the “good” Locke is now the “bad” MIB then Sayid’s resurrection must surely lead to him being the “good” Jacob! My brain hurts. Which is why I love LOST!

      • RCB

        @Mothra – Yeah, it’s possible that Jacob is now in Sayid’s body. That’s why it was important for them to bring the body to the temple.

      • Christine

        I thought something similar, but more of the Jack and Sawyer will now “take over” for or replace Jacob and MIB, who, at one time, “took over” for two other men, etc., etc., down through history. I started to think that the island always needs an epic struggle to survive.

      • Cyn

        MIB took over Locke’s body
        Jacob took over Sayid’s body
        Bringing us to the battle of good and evil. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it. At least until next week . . . LOL

      • Ian Hoppe

        We shouldn’t labor under the assumption that the MIB is evil and Jacob is good. this is one of their favorite tricks on the show. they’ll make someone look good then turn them around on a dime. Just because Jacob is in white does not mean he is the good guy.

      • Scoob

        As someone mentionned before the last episode is between Jack and John, Sayid body’s might be the new host for Jacob and Jack will probably do the Ben trick to Locke at the end of the season… Now will we see the two timelines will collide :)

      • jayme

        does anyone have any insight on MIB’s statement that he ‘just wants to go home’? i’m very troubled by this. home to the temple? or what?

      • peso

        Jack! I can’t stand the sight of him anymore, I’m sick of him crying and squeezing tears over every bit of news he gets!

      • Cyn

        I believe that the MIB is the evil one. Remember what he said about Locke being an easy mark. Good would not make such a statement about people being weak. And “good” wouldn’t kill people.

      • Charlieisback

        If you think that Jack and Sawyer is the main nemesis, then you really are too caught on the Jack/Kate/Sawyer thing. The Philosophical debate between Jack and John is the real duality of the show. Faith v. Science, control v. fate, denial v. acceptance.

      • J

        MIB made himself look like Locke but Locke’s body is still in the coffin, not taken over. Locke also didn’t get to the temple before he died. He died off the island. This is not the same as Sayid. If Jacob wanted to look like Sayid, why wouldn’t he just do it like the MIB and why would Sayid have to be at the temple, John Locke never was. Doesn’t fit.

      • Michelle

        J I agree with you. I was reading the other comments and the vision of Locke’s body on the beach (which they seem to put in our face quite a bit, wonder why) kept popping into my head. So I agree with you that it doesnt fit. Sayid is supposed to balance the island. Despite the struggles of the pawns there has been a balance on the island. And when MIB mentioned wishing he could kill Jacob, and Jacob acknowlaged the desire, I think it’s the same between light and dark. Light wants to prevail as does darkness, but you cant fully have one with out the other because then you wouldn’t know there was a difference. The power of either is in the exsistance of both.

    • UGH

      Please. Let’s put an end to anything and everything called “Team fill-in-the-blank”.
      That’s so overused and lame!

      • Jennifer

        That’s totally not what they said, genius.

      • Rock Golf

        Agreed! I’m on Team UGH!

        Oops…

      • UGH

        It looks like it in the headline to me, dumb@$$.

      • Abbie

        Ugh,

        I would generally agree with you, but your complaint doesn’t apply here. Team Darlton refers to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse being a team, two people who work together for a common cause (they are a team). When you say I’m with team “fill-in-the-blank” you are saying you support something. They are two completely separate concepts.

        I too am sick of the Team Jacob, Team Edward stuff, but that has nothing to do with Team Darlton.

      • UGH

        It’s still “team”, dammit!

      • Ptk

        I’m with Team UGH! :)

      • Dearest Ugh!

        I’m on Team Calm the F Down…..jeez!

    • Shaun

      Agreed that “dead is dead” so taking Juliet to the temple wouldn’t have helped. Hopefully the “going out for coffee” thing will lead to happy ending in the other timeline that was created. As for Jacob telling Hurley to take Sayid to the temple… My wife had the idea that Sayid wasn’t going to make it either, but his body could serve as a new host for Jacob’s consciousness. I think that might be what happened!

      • shep

        i think the same thing about sayid’s body being a host for jacob.. the way he was looking at sayid in the jungle reminded me of how some people look at something they are going to buy…

      • Brad

        I’m betting that it’s going to be the real dead Locke that is going to inhabit Jacob’s spirit. Remember, he’s wearing Jack’s grandfather’s shoes. That must serve some purpose.

      • christina

        when did the “going out to coffee” happen? I guess I missed it

      • Lynne

        Old Locke = Jacob – good
        New Locke = MIB – evil
        then
        Old Sayid = MIB – evil
        New Sayid = Jacob – good

        So does this mean that there is bad and good in everyone or that bad and evil live side by side????

      • Kris

        Sayid isn’t a host of any sort, rather he had to “die” in the Fountain of Youth (the water in the temple) in order to be reborn like Richard and some of the Others – never aging through the centuries. Both a blessing and a curse, which is why the Others were sad that it worked (even while our Losties assumed he was dead), because they’ve lived with it enough to know it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

      • CGG

        Yes, but they don’t TAKE OVER bodies…they just take their form. Hence why Locke’s body is still around, but MIB looks like him. I don’t think Jacob has taken over Sayid. Sayid is probably changed though…the same way Ben was when the others saved him as a child.

      • eve

        Very good point, CGG

      • TGW

        cgg you are on to something. when ben was a little boy and got shot by sayid, Kate took ben out of the dharma initiative and took him to someone who told her that he could fix ben but all that is good in ben would be forever gone. (if i remember correctly) Also, it seems that when Jacob died the water changed colors

      • Tania

        How could Juliet have a happy ending with Sawyer off the island. if she kill her sister by blowing the healing island??
        And I don’t think she was talking to Sawyer about coffe, becauase when she ask for the kiss she seems to just realize she is talking to James and she recalls him with love.

      • bgd81

        but why that guy with glasses, the translator, said that if sayid dies they are in big trouble?

      • Emily

        Juliet was Dead, and Sayid was only “Mostly Dead.” Seeing as he was “mostly dead all day,” it took him a while for the miracle pill to do it’s magic. It’s classic Princess Bride material. PS–the water in the spring because chocolate coating makes it go down easier.

      • Kristina

        oooh, i hadn’t thought of that shaun!! i was wondering why it was so important for jacob to get sayid to the temple. obviously he wasn’t on the “good list” so why would jacob want to save him. that’s a good theory though… i like it!

    • Jenny

      I never liked Juliet and I’m glad she’s gone, but the really interesting thing about Juliet at this point is: How did she know it worked??!

      • Kris

        She saw the 1977 timeline and knows that in that timeline she is alive in the US still, never having come to the island.

      • Sara

        I’m guessing it’s when she says “going out for coffee” and for a moment before her island death she has a glimpse into both worlds.

      • Kris

        She actually said “we should go out for coffee sometime”, hinting that in the 1977 time line her and Sawyer will meet.

      • Rebecca

        Well looking past Julliet, Early in the series they were burying two women (I think) and made a reference to the fact that “on this island nothing stays dead” So will we see all who have died come back? Even all those fired for DUI”s in hawaii during filming? Waiting with bated breath.

    • ryan

      I think the monster was previously christian shepeard as he was brought already dead. the monster needed a body that the people would believe, there comes in John Locke. He is now dead on arrival and the people trust him. Enter black smoke as john lock

      • hope

        wow Ryan this is a great theory! I totally agree. And sorry to all of those of you who want Juliet to come back to life….but the producers have said that the Jack, Sawyer, kate love triangle would be a main theme in season 6. If she was brought back then Sawyer would still love her and there would be no triangle. Besides it was clearly evedent that Sawyer’s loss and pain is already causing Kate to reach out to him. I must say though I have always wanted it to be Kate and Jack and so I’m a little frustrated by this.

      • murley

        no one has said the love triangle will be a “main theme”. in fact it has been said that they will wrap it up quick so they can move on to more important things. of which there are many.

      • Barbara

        Now what about the 2 stones they found in a cave in one of the early shows. At the time I thought it was Rose and Bernard,but now it just may have been Jacob and the MIB.It could be showing that this has been playing out over and over. when on the season finial episode one of the Losties will leave those stones there before they leave the island. Also a reference to the stones could have to do with the game backgammon. It is played with Black and white pieces.

      • rockgem

        Interesting theory Ryan, but don’t you think Christian is Jacob vs. MIB? He was previously seen in Jacob’s cabin, and there was ash around the cabin to keep the MIB out.

      • Ericka

        If the monster needs a dead body to “take over” so to speak, then why didn’t it take over Locke’s dead body that was laying on the beach? I think real Locke and fake Locke are two totally different beings.

      • Pat

        If the monster was using Christian’s body, then why was Christian speaking to Locke when he went inside Jacob’s cabin in Episode 4.11 ‘Cabin Fever'(while it was still encircled in ash)?Isn’t the ash supposed to keep the monster out?

      • erin Fingerhut

        What if “Jacob’s Cabin” is really MIB’s cabin, and the ash was to keep him in, not out? Jacob shows his face to people, MIB does not. And MIB I believe can take the form of dead people, not dead bodies. He’s been the form of Ben’s dead mother, Christian, Hurley’s friend from the sanitarium, maybe, Alex, and now John. It’s his MO. He and Jacob must be different enough that Jacob can or wants to show himself to people and MIB does not or cannot.

      • Mark

        Ryan…I think smokey was Christian (had different shoes on) and was locked in the cabin (Jacobs bodyguards burning it down after they saw the ash circle was broken). Smokeys entire loophole plan was getting Locke to die so he can take his form and convince Ben to kill Jacob. In one episode we saw NonLocke tell Richard to tell real Locke (when they were traveling through time) that he must die to get his plane mates back to the island. He had to die so smokey can take his form.

    • GigglesJunior

      The scene were Juliet died would have to be the best scene i’ve ever seen Sawyer in. The overall emotion was pulled off perfectly. Props to Lost. I think it’s pretty stupid that they didn’t bring Juliet along to the temple (it would’ve been worth the time). I bet that since the Lost survivors saw Sayid raise from the dead, Sawyer is gonna want to see if it will work with Juliet. And then Juliets body will be gone. (I Just Blew Your Mind).

    • MC

      “you totally called the MIB/Monster being the same person.”

      Honestly, I didn’t find that so much of a surprise as a simple confirmation of suspicions that have been held since season 3 when Yemi approached Eko.

    • Celia

      This is kind of random, but was Richard Daniel Faraday’s father??

      • murley

        no charles widmore is daniel faraday’s father.

      • Heather

        No, Richard is not Faraday’s dad. His dad is Charles Widmore.

      • Celia

        Oh okay, that’s what I thought. I was re-watching the season 5 finale and Richard seemed a little too concerned about Eloise.

      • Jordan

        Charles Widmore is his father, which makes Penny and Daniel half-brother and sister. Also… what if Penny and Desmond’s son, Charlie, goes back in time, takes his mother’s maiden name (Widmore), and becomes his own grandfather…?!? Mind? Blown.

    • Paul

      @Karla. James was wonderful? I’m assuming you’re talking about Sawyer. How was he “wonderful”? He acted like a spoiled brat. Blaming Jack like a two-year-old. Did Jack force Juliet to go to the Swan site? No. Did Jack force Juliet to stand close to the hole? No. Did Jack force Juliet to not take any precautions while she was at the Swan site? No. The fact is–Jack didn’t force Juliet to do anything. And it was just dumb luck that Juliet fell into the hole. (Also, she doesn’t have much physical strength either.) Sawyer needs to grow up and realize it was no one’s fault because these things happen in life. Again, how was James or Sawyer wonderful?

      • Karen

        I think she meant that James was a wonderful actor in that scene! He was amazing and had me convinced totally that he was devastated by Juliet’s loss. The last scene I saw that well done was Sun when the ship blew up with Jin on it.

      • Michelle

        I agree about the awesome acting. I also think he’s in the right for accusing Jack because Jack decided to go with it and bring everyone back to the island. If he hadn’t’ve then James and Juliet would still be living the day to day life on the island which seems to be the only time of peace in James’ life. He has a great deal to miss and be upset over when you think of the overall desire to find your happiness in life. Would you just shrug it off if it was you?

    • LOLONE

      The MIB is not the smoke monster. They are letting us think that. This is Lost. If they let you think something, that’s not true. The smoke monster is somewhat the force that eliminate paroxes. period.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        When’s the last time someone reminded you what a moron you are?

      • Lost in time

        I actually think this is an interesting thought if the two are separate. I have a hard time buying that the smoke monster is a living being. But it would be interesting if the two are tied together but not the same physical being. Perhaps the MIB controls the monster. The insulting response seems to me rather uncalled for.

  • elena

    oh man, what a doozy of an episode. I’m hating these flash-sideways only because they’re so damn infuriating (why does sawyer help kate out? why is jack stupid-seeming? why can locke not be badass anymore but still somehow seem awesomely wise from a wheelchair?), but I love them because they make me think of how much the characters have grown since their “birth” on the show. I can’t wait for more Lost! (but shame, to have me all upset about Juliet and then just kill her? ooh, dash my hopes! not cool)

    • richard

      I’d say Sawyer helped Kate because 1) she is pretty and 2) he himself is a criminal. And that is if you don’t even want to get into the whole 3) He has a reality defying relationship/connection with her.

      • Erin

        I agree with that. I thought the Kate/Sawyer thing was adorable. He sees her picking at her handcuffs and he just smiles all charming-like. Then the security men enter the elevator and you see that he moves almost in front of her as to shield her from view. I thought their connection this time around was almost better than their on-island connection.

    • Mary Q. Contrary

      Hahahahaha! “Why is Jack stupid-seeming?” Classic!

  • Austin

    I find it suspicious that Christian Shepard’s casket is missing from Oceanic 815…especially since Christian has appeared to be such a significant figure in the series thus far.

    • jmo

      I know, it’s like he’s missing a father and finds Locke. Locke is in the wheelchair and finds a surgeon who could heal him. This could be a very different relationship off-island. Remember, Locke was Christian’s substitute on the Agira flight. Maybe he’s a substitute again.

      • JasonHomey

        I think their relationship will be totally different now and thats what I love about Lost. I think they will help each other now.

    • KT

      I think locke is really dead..but maybe Christian is alive on the island..where is his body in the flash-parallel story..john said they didnt lose him just the body..

      • jeff

        But the island is under water in the parallel story so where would Christian be alive?

      • Susan

        agreed!! I always felt that Christian wasn’t dead.

      • Reggie

        The real question is who lead Locke off the island? Jacob or MIB…who would have guess that Ben would have killed him?

    • Brian

      Interesting that both Locke and Christian came to the island as corpses, and both had their appearances subsequently “used”.

      • Chase Dunnette

        Don’t forget Yemi as well!

      • WOW!

        Yemi wasn’t dead when he arrived on the island….he died when his plane crashed.

      • Eto

        Yemi was dead when he arrived on the island. He got shot so they threw him on the plane.

    • PMCVT

      Locke’s knives are also missing. I’ve noticed that whatever has gone missing in the alt reality ended up on the island in the initial reality. I wonder what else could be missing from the alt reality that ended up on the island.

      • Lost-a-holic

        I think that Christian is Jack–an older version of Jack. Both are neurosurgeons, both are alcoholics. What if 1977 Jack ends up taking care of, say baby Aaron and raises him as “Jack”.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Oooooooo. Clever! I think you’re onto something.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Maybe Desmond had something to do with it? He did seem kind of off-kilter when he and Jack were talking, like he knew more than he was letting on.

      • Brad

        That’s right. They never found Christian’s body on the island did they? Just Jack finding a man who looked like him.

      • David

        Not only are the coffin and the knives missing from the plane… Jack’s pen was missing. Yes, a minor item, but perhaps significant in how things went missing. Maybe when the plane shook, certain items disappeared, just as certain people did when Ajira 316 first shook.

      • hope

        Kate took Kack’s pen when she bumped into him comming out of the bathroom on the plane, and then used it in the airport bathroom to get her hand cuffs off…nothing mysterious there David

      • sameer

        Didn’t Kate just steal the pen when she bumped into him coming out of the bathroom? That’s the pen that she used to try to bust out of her handcuffs.

      • bunni

        well, this is my first post so be gentle, lol. I was just thinking about how Shannon wasnt on the plane this time around so neither was her asthma medication. I just wonder if they is why they never found her inhalers in season 1. Thanks for listening :)

    • Christian

      OMG!!! Is it just me, or does Jin get hotter and hotter in every episode?

      • Ginercat

        No it’s not just you–he IS hot!

      • Ali

        He’s hot, but nothing compared to Sayid. OMG.

      • naynay

        I think Sayid is sooooooooooooooo sexy, but I think the same about Sawyer. There is just something about Sayid……….like he would really know how to take care of you.

      • Justin

        Sayid doesn’t strike me as a cuddler…

      • Janyna

        YES! Jin DOES get hotter and hotter. And Sayid – whew. I even think Miles is cute. Those men are sexy!

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        How about Jack FTW? Definitely the hottest guy on the show, and a much better actor than the ones mentioned here. He is the backbone of the show, and I’m pretty sure by the end of this season, all the Jack haters will be singing a different tune. He’s going to have a redeeming arc. It’s funny, at the beginning of the first season, even though he was dealing with a lot of crap on the inside, he was the hero, the strong one, and over the course of the series has been taken down more than a few notches on the pole of life. Now he’s ready for a reversal of that. I think it’s very telling that he’s starting out this season, including in the sideways reality, as beaten down and weak. This is his season to become a stronger man, and to “redeem” himself.

      • Why, Y?

        Matthew Fox is such a good actor that he can really make you hate Jack, even after we all grew to “love” him at the start of the show. And now that we hate him, it will make the “love” in the end that much more satisfying. Not the first time on this show that we will love a character that we once hated so much. E.g. Sawyer and Ben.

        Great actors all.

    • Fish Gordon

      I think the casket going missing is just showing us that ‘the bomb’ changed some things- but not all things. There will be parallels between both worlds,despite any efforts to change them.

      Im curious as the significance of Locke losing his knives?

      • Pat

        in Episode 4.11 ‘Cabin Fever’, Richard presents young Locke with 6 objects which “already belong to him.” Locke is initially drawn to the vial of sand and compass but ends up choosing the knife.Perhaps his losing his knives in the flash-sideways is some sort of course-correction?

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Maybe the knife Richard brought him is the knife MIB as Locke uses to kill Jacob? There would have to be some reality and time-bending for that to be the case, but I’ve learned to never rule that out when it concerns this show. Also, did anyone else notice how much emphasis and screen time was used to show MIB cleaning the knife? He seemed to find it very important to get ALL of Jacob’s blood off the knife.

      • Lost in time

        I was reminded too of the episode with young Locke and Richard with the knives.

        I thought it meant one of two things; either Richard was seeing a different timeline from the show, or that the knives did belong to Lock but something evil was going to happen. It does seem very interesting about the knives coming back into the show being gone. Also seems an interesting thought if like someone mentioned, that things missing in whatever timeline are present in the other and vise versa.

  • Celia

    I’m so confused, but I loved it!!
    I’m pretty sure Jacob is now in Sayid’s body. It seems kind of obvious if you think about it and they gave hints throughout the show.
    But I’m so confused about the rest.
    Do you think it’s possible that it DID work and they’re all in two places at once now living completely different lives???

    • OhioLockeFan

      Wonder if Jack and Juliet will meet up in a doctor/doctor scene?

      • Celia

        That’s possible. Juliet has to be somewhere since she’s not on the Island. They blew it up in 1977, before she went there. There are so many possibilities!

      • sbwm

        I think we can infer the Sawyer and Juliet still meet up thus the “let’s have coffee sometime. Dutch treat.”

      • jmo

        Remember, Miles said “it worked.” I think Juliet was having one of those Charlotte-like episodes where her mind went into the new timeline. She was at the heart of the explosion. Remember how it affected Desmond when they blew the hatch… Just a theory.

      • Rock Golf

        NO! The Island was NOT BLOWN UP IN 1977!!

        That was clear from the underwater shots, where the “Dharma Shark” swam by. The shark tank was a fairly recent addition to the Dharma village. And sharks don’t live for 33 years or more.

      • Kath

        Shark lifespan is 30 to 100 years, actually, but I agree it’s a moot point

      • Kayla

        GREAAAT catch Rock Golf! Plus also remember the shark from season 1. The shark tanks in Season 3. Hmmmm…

    • KT

      Thanks Celia..I never thought about jacob is Sayid’s body..that totally makes sense..

      • mom_of_2_kidz

        Oh my, thats a good one! I didn’t even think if that :)

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Maybe that’s why they noted that the water wasn’t clear anymore. Maybe Jacob inhabiting Sayid’s body while he was in there had something to do with it?

      • Celia

        Jimmy Kimmel asked Damon and Carlton about that when they were on his show and they said it wasn’t true. But something is going on with Sayid.

      • Kris

        Jacob is not in Sayid’s body. Sayid is alive like Richard – the water is the Fountain of Youth.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Kris, that can’t be the case, because if Ben were also “baptized” in the fountain of youth, as you call it, then he would not have aged since being in it, therefore remaining a kid, which he’s obviously not.

      • Fish Gordon

        Technically we never saw young Ben go in the water.

        When the MIB became Locke- there was still a body, he merely became a copy. When Sayid died- his body was still there in plain view- I dont see how Jacob could be inhabitating him. More likely he becomes like Richard- never aging.

      • Michelle

        Perhaps it’s simply a spring of health. The leader cut his hand, placed it in the spring, and seemed surprised a little when his hand did not heal.

    • leo

      Ooh, Jacob is now in Sayid – I totally agree!!
      I’m wondering why no one tried to get Juliet to the water where Sayid is healed.

      • JW

        not sure about Jacob being in Sayid’s body. When Sayid woke up he seemed very confused. I would guess that if it was Jacob in Sayid’s body, that he would have woke up knowing where he was and not acted as if he was confused.

      • Nicotine

        Sayid wasn’t dead yet when they put him in the water. It would have been too late for Juliet.

        And as for Jacob being in Sayid’s body, I think it’s so. Remember, MiB/Smoky has John Locke’s memories and he didn’t know initially how he got on the island or how he was connected to it.

      • DustDiddy

        When they took Sayid to the temple and ultimately told them Jacob was dead… there was such a look of shock as if IT WAS TIME. They knew Jacob dying meant he was supposed to inhabit the body of Sayid. If he did, good for them. If he didn’t and Sayid died, like they said… they would be in a lot of trouble.

        So maybe MiB had to die as well in order to inhabit the body of John Locke.

      • Lost-a-holic

        I wondered about that too!

      • Gin

        But Juliet was already dead by the time Sawyer brought her up, while Sayid was barely hanging on. Maybe that’s the difference. She was beyond hope…

      • mss

        People Jacob is not in Sayid. And the smokey can only shape shift into someone who is dead. MIB always knew the only one who would ever kill Jacob was Ben. So he orchestrated everything. But even that why did smokey dragged people into the temple before? (remember frenchies?) whoa what happened to russaeu? We saw that “other” in the plane? What happened to the others in general? Now are those the same others we see? I feel this group is different.

      • chuck

        Juliet would have not been on the list that was in the onk. they were going to kill them until they broke it open…

      • Pete

        I am pretty sure they couldn’t bring Juliet to the temple because she was already dead. the whole “dead is dead” theme making another appearance.

      • Shaun

        To mss: Um, how do you know that Jacob hasn’t inabited Sayid’s body? You don’t, unless you’ve seen all the scripts for this season so far. You don’t happen to think that Jacob did that, but you don’t know. It’s just speculation, and actually it’s pretty good speculation at that. if MIB can inhabit other people, dead people at that, why can’t Jacob? We still don’t know exactly who or what Jacob and MIB are or what they can/can’t do. I think Sayid is now Jacob, but let’s wait and see.

      • Rock Golf

        Onk if you can spell “ankh”.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        @Rock Golf: You just made my day.

      • brian

        I don’t think I’m totally on board with the jacob as sayid theory or the man in black dying to become locke,mostly because his spirit never inhabits locke’s actual body and so far on the show, physically dead has been physically dead. We still don’t know exactly what christian shepard is so we can’t count him. The conversation that richard and MIB/locke have when he tells locke (and looks in amazement), “I’ve seen a lot of things on this island but I’ve never seen someone come back from the dead”, is pointing to the notion that jacob may not be inside sayid. Not to say that the island isn’t full of firsts but I think the note hurley gave the leader at the temple may have just been regarding sayid’s importance to the coming battle with MIB.

      • Laura

        It’s possible that Jacob is now in Sayid’s body. That’s why they drowned him, to completely kill him off so Jacob could take over…it’s a definite possibility…but I noticed that all of the oceanic 6 were physically touched by Jacob during his visits with them. Maybe this is significant somehow…

      • ecobfw

        While it isn’t unheard of for Team Darlton to mislead us, they did say on Kimmel that Sayid is not possessed by Jacob but may be re-animated by someone. On the other hand, they did put him in that murky water after Jacob died and on Jacob’s specific request. And they did refer to Sayid as a “soldier” in the preview show, so who knows? Maybe Jacob needs a soldier to fight whatever represents “the end.” (“Everything that happens until the end is just progress.”) I also can’t help but think of two other candidates: the real Locke (who was being discussed by the MIB/Locke at the time) and Juliet, who just died, and died without the Jacob touch or as a candidate on a Jacob List.

      • Gabe

        But MIB didn’t take over Locke’s body. He basically is only using his image. Sayid’s actual body lives on. I think its still Sayid. He was healed by Jacob like Locke was healed after his fall.

      • Kris

        Shaun- because MIB is alive. Jacob is dead. MIB can shapeshift to anything he wants since he’s still alive. But Jacob saw all this happening (wove all this into place, remember the tapestry?) and brought all the Losties to this place at this time for a reason. Sayid is like Richard now, since he was ‘reborn’ in the Fountain of Youth (the water at the temple).

      • Sara

        I wonder if Sayid is going to have his memory wiped as Ben did when Richard took him to the temple to have him healed of his gunshot that ironically he received from Sayid…0.o!

      • E

        Wait…there was an other on the plane???

    • akerockstar

      omg,same here! it was a hell of an episode and i’m still more confused than ever…BUT LOVING IT!

      • IrishSharon

        I agree. I’ll have to rewatch it but I thought Jacob told Hurly to take Sayid there and he would be okay. And that all that went there would be okay. Thought Hurly would tell Sawyer that so he would take Juliet.

    • H.G.

      I thought Sayid might now be Jacob as well, but Flock does not inhabit Lock’s dead body–Lock’s body is still dead on the beach. Flock is some kind of alternate manifestation of Lock. Wouldn’t Jacob do the same thing? Wouldn’t Sayid’s body still be dead on the ground, but Jacob was now able to manifest himself looking like Sayid?

      • Lost-a-holic

        that’s true!

      • naynay

        Good point!

      • pringles

        I think your forgetting that the MIB/Fake Lake is the smoke monster. The smoke monster can shift into different forms. There is no evidence that Jacob can do this…leading us to believe that he probably actually has to have a dead body.

      • brian

        I agree completely with you h.g. Not a single body has been taken over by a ghost in the history of lost. There have been manifestations, i.e. locke and shepard but not an actual dead corpse that got up.

      • Teresa

        Brian, are we sure? Where is Christian’s dead body?

    • hoganbcmj

      That would make sense except that MIB is not in Locke’s body; he is just manifesting himself as Locke. Locke’s body is lying dead on the beach at the foot of the statue. So the theory of Jacob taking over Sayid’s body is kind of out of left field. No one has taken over anyone’s body yet. Unless you consider Christian’s to have been taken over by Jacob earlier.

      • D

        Christian has been dead since Australia. Every time he’s appeared, it’s been Smokey posing as him. He likes taking the form of dead people…

      • Bob Loblaw

        I thought that Christian was the MIB – when Ilana got to the cabin she said that Jacob had been gone a long time and that someone else was using the cabin…that was Christian/MIB

      • D

        Sorry I meant to start the prvious comment with “I reckon” :D

      • Watcher

        The ash keeps Smokey at bay. The cabin had ash around it and we know smoke monster was out and about. So seems Smokey can manifest the dead and Jacob use a dead body like Christian and Sayid. Question then becomes why/who put Jacob in the cabin and not Smokey? I still think Jacob is the bad guy and Smokey is the island protector. That’s why he was yelling at the people for abusing the powers the island has.

      • DR

        The body thing … we know that MIB took the form of Locke and Locke’s body still existed. Do we also assume that Christian’s form has been taken? And if so, it is somehow different because when Jack found his casket in Season 1, the body was gone.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Well, obviously Jacob and MIB are two different people, or entities, or what have you, so it’s safe to surmise that they may have completely different abilities, and ways of inhabiting other people. Maybe MIB can only masquerade as the dead, and Jacob can only inhabit the body of a living soul? That would point back to the whole “light/dark” theme we’ve been seeing since the beginning. Just a theory.

      • Michelle

        The previews for the final season show the Asian guy “torturing” Sayid. I don’t think Jacob took over Sayid’s body because if the Asian guy knew he was “Jacob” he wouldn’t be trying to hurt him. Maybe.

      • Ruckus

        Locke described the smoke monster as a beautiful white light when it confronted him in season 1 or 2. hmmmmmm….

      • lindsay

        interesting… but then if the MIB can manifest himself as people who have died on the island, what stops him now from appearing even as jacob?

      • Michelle

        Lindsay I’m not sure Jacob is a person. It took a faithful servant to kill him. As it would take a man of the cloth to turn on God to “kill” god. Not saying that Jacob is god though.

      • Why, Y?

        @Ruckus, I saw a theory earlier in the comments here that both Jacob and Flocke/MIB can take the form of Smokey, thus explaining the inconsistencies that we’ve seen with Smokey throughout the series. One time Locke sees it as a bright light, one time it tried to drag him into the earth. One time it spares Mr. Eko, the next time it kills him. Brutally. Not sure if there’s anything to that theory, but it seems to solve the questions that we have about it currently. Can’t wait to see what happens!

      • erin

        IF Jacob is in Sayid’s body, which I’m not saying he is, maybe it’s because his own “body” got burned up in the fire after Ben killed him? I’m not even sure Jacob and MIB have to follow the same rules with how they operate, there’s nothing that says their the same kind of “being.” Except for both looking human when they are talking to each other, they do nothing else the same way.

    • Brevity

      Sayid was sporting an accent at the end of the episode that was not his own. It reminded me of charlie. Then I realized both charlie and sayid drowned. And we know that charlie was still around (at least as a ghost)…

      • pmm

        As soon as Sayid spoke, I was certain it was with Charlie’s voice!

      • Thackery

        I don’t know about that, but I do love the way Sayid pronounced “What happened?” like “Whoppen??”

      • ecobfw

        Interesting idea, I hadn’t considered that, but in flash-sideways world, Charlie did tell Jack that “I am supposed to be dead.” And there’s that whole guitar case, too. Yes, it held the Ankh very nicely, but I suspect Jacob delivered that list that way for a very specific reason (not to mention that Charlie debarking the plane with his guitar case was prominently featured.) On a real-world note, Naveen Andrews actually does have a UK accent. Maybe not a leap in practical terms. Wow, so many great ideas here.

      • ADHealy70

        I’m glad someone else heard Charlies voice too!!! LOL

      • KML

        Naveen Andrews (who plays Sayid) is actually from England. This could have been a slip in his accent, as I’ve heard it slip a bit before as well.

      • eve

        Now THAT makes my head hurt!

      • cbbailey

        Remember….dead people will talk to Hugo. And Miles has the ability to hear them as well. Miles is at the temple with the Oceanic 6, though I don’t recall Jacob ever touching him in the past, nor is his name on any list. So why is he there?

      • Michelle

        cbbailey I remember Miles acting a little strange in the Temple. What do you think he was hearing?

      • Freckles

        Interesting, Michelle. I was thinking a parallel scenario. Jacob and MIB= good v/s evil. Ben is sort of a Judas. He was a follower of Jacob, but felt under appreciated, so he betrayed him… as they say.. “the devil made me do it”

    • Moe

      It’s too bad we had to see Charlie go out like that. His character was pathetic last night. Hope we see him get out of jail. I wished we seen more Claire. And what about Michael & Walt?Weren’t they on the plane too?

      • Hrfe

        I thought that when they marched Charlie through the plane his eyes would meet Claire’s but no….. maybe Claire wasn’t on the plane? All we know is that she was leaving the airport, but we never saw her until then

      • Katie

        I wish…but Walt’s all grown up now. That’s why they couldn’t bring him back until a few years had gone by in “real time” back off the island when Locke found him. They can’t exactly make the actor look 11 again…

      • Shaun

        I wondered about Michael and WAAALLT! too, but remember that WAAAALLT! (OK, I’ll stop now) has grown considerably since 2004 (and gone through puberty, by the sound of his voice), so putting them on the plane wouldn’t have made much sense. I do hope we’ll see them again thought. I know Harold Perrineau is supposed to be back at some point.

      • camkel

        Alternate Charlie yelled at Jack “I was suppose to die”. I think he has some recollection of his island life where his death helped save many. I seemed that Airplane Jack had very vague memories of his island life line.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        Maybe, to excuse the growing up of the actor, in the “sideways” reality, Walt doesn’t exist? I mean, we’ve already seen how some actual realities have been different, like Hurley being lucky, Shannon staying in Australia, etc. Maybe Walt just doesn’t exist?

      • ecobfw

        Team Darlton (on Kimmel) said that Michael & Walt weren’t on the plane for a reason. Maybe to do with consequences of the 77 bomb detonation changing history? (Not to mention the age thing for Malcolm.)

      • Meemaw

        Yes, I’ve been wondering about Michael & Walt too. Why did the “others” take Walt, and what was so special about him? I think Walt made the polar bear appear in season 1, and I want to know what other “powers” he has.

      • Ashley

        At first I thought it seemed like Jack ‘remembered’ some stuff, but he didn’t recognize anyone other than Desmond and he had met Desmond before off-island. Also I think maybe that either Walt doesn’t exist or his mom didn’t die; like how Hurley was lucky now maybe Walt wasn’t special and maybe her sickness was also caused somewhat by Walt.

      • cbbailey

        Walt was born after 1977, so perhaps he just never existed in one of the scenerios. Jack did have some vague memories on the plane. When he was looking into the plane’s bathroom mirror, what was that sore on his neck?

    • Lost-a-holic

      WOW, fantastic insight–I missed that!

    • JenR

      Ooh! Good call, Celia.

    • angela

      Totally agree — the whole ‘baptism’ ceremony was to prepare Sayid’s body for Jacob to inhabit. I’m guessing the MIB and Jacob have done this many times before.

      • Amanda

        But why would they? When they did that to Sayid, they didn’t know that Jacob was dead yet. They didn’t find that out until afterwards.

      • Andre

        I think they were trying to heal Sayid. The japanese guy is surprised to find the water colored red and sort of ‘tests’ it’s healing powers before trying to heal Sayid.

      • Bob Loblaw

        I would assume it was the same thing that they did to save Ben when Sayid shot him. And I’m pretty sure that Jacob was not inhabiting Ben…

      • Pearscht

        The water was no longer clear because Jacob had died and the water was cloudy with his blood.

      • MB

        Remember when Sayid shot young Ben, and they took him to Richard who took him into the temple. Richard said Ben would be forever changed and have no memory of this. Sounds like what happened to Sayid; he looked very confused when he came back to life.

      • Cassie

        Ok, like many others on here, I thought that Jacob had inhabited Sayid’s body. HOWEVER, after researching/thinking more about it, I disagree. Think about it, the MIB only LOOKS like Locke…there is still an actual dead body of Locke. So, wouldn’t that be the same for Jacob? He could take Sayid’s “look”, but there would still need to be a dead body of Sayid…and there’s not.

    • MikeNJD

      I was thinking the same thing, that Sayid is now Jacob, but unless Jacob and Man in Black’s body-snatching abilities are different, Sayid CAN’T be Jacob. MIB has taken the form of Locke, but Locke’s body still exists and is lying on the beach. Sayid actually got up in his real body. This points me to Sayid NOT being Jacob. I don’t know, just a thought.

      • Babs

        But that’s assuming that Jacob and MIB are the same sort of entity. We have no reason to believe they are.

    • GS

      I totally didn’t think of that! Wow that would be awesome. Last night confused the crap out of me!

      • Kate

        I have more questioned then I started with. Who are those people at the Temple?? I think the Sayid/Jacob thought is interesting. If time was reset how can people be missing from the plane or on the plane now but not in the past?? I luv this show but it makes me crazy!!!

    • Caitie F

      Yeah, he is definitely Jacob in Sayid’s body. All of the Jesus imagery for Jacob and then the Jesus imagery in the “rebirth”.

      • Kris

        Um, no he’s not. I can’t believe how many people are thinking that rubbish! MIB is alive, Jacob is dead. MIB doesn’t inhabit bodies – he only shapeshifts to LOOK like other things (smoke, Locke, Kate’s horse, Jack’s dad, etc…). Sawyer’s resurrection has something to do with the water he was dunked in and the Others who never age.

      • Kris

        SAYID, sorry typed too fast there… ;)

      • Realist

        I just hope it doesn’t get all bibilical or Christian like. Down to a Jesus vs Satan thing would be very disappointing and so cliche!

    • Andre

      I noticed that too Celia.
      I think Jacob and Mib can use dead bodies as, well, avatars to operate on the Island. Like mib is doing with Locke and Jacob did with Christian.
      Remember how Ben convinced Jack to bring Locke’s body back to the Island? That was the loophole. Can’t figure out why AvatarLocke/MIB couldn’t kill Jacob though.

      • Em

        But remember that Jack found Christian’s coffin on the island and it was empty? So maybe Jacob does have the ability to actually inhabit bodies.

      • ckay

        MIB and Jacob can’t do away with each other because they are the same entity…you know the ol’ good versus evil in all of us, human consciousness….for them it would be like committing suicide…one can’t exist with out the other only hold it at bay.

      • Gabe

        I don’t think Jacob was using Christian’s image, MIB was. Why would Christian tell Locke that he would have to sacrifice himself if that plan would help MIB complete his mission/plan. MIB was masquerading as Jacob to get Ben and Locke to follow him.

      • BobJ

        I think the loophole was that someone from off-island had to kill Jacob with full knowledge of who Jacob was – and truly, truly want to do it, not be tricked into it.

        Also, the Jacob/MIB conversation made it clear the there’s nothing new under the sun – all things that happen have happened before… maybe even Jacob’s death.

        Another important thing (about Jacob/Sayid possibility) is that MIB/Smokey takes on the visage of other people, but when Jacob interacts with the Losties, he always appears as himself (yet never seems out of place). I don’t think Jacob is in Sayid’s body, he’s just using Sayid as the natural soldier of “god” Sayid already is.

        It’s all based on religious mythology, just a mixture of lots of different ones.

      • Angel

        MIB and jacob had rules that they can not kill each other. That is the reason why MIB asked ben to kill jacob. Notice in the last season MIB tells jacob on the beach that i want to kill you so bad but i cant.

    • Jillz

      I totally agree! As soon as Sayid woke up, my first thought was that was Jacob!

      • Mari

        Glad to see I’m not the only one who reached this conclusion about Sayid and Jacob. If we’re right then this is a great twist!

      • Graham

        There is absolutely nothing that points toward Jacob inhabiting Sayid or anyone for that matter. Sure, Jacob ‘studies’ Sayid when Hugo is talking to him, but still that doesn’t mean he has inhabited Sayid’s body. Body snatching has never been part of the story on LOST. MIB isn’t inhabiting any bodies. Locke’s body is laying right there on the beach. To suggest that Jacob is now in Sayid is really coming out of left field.
        Of course, this is LOST, and nearly any plot twist is possible

    • Barbara

      I think the people that are at the temple are the ones that jacob met and touched…all except John Locke.

    • Lyn

      Initially I thought Jacob took over Sayid’s body, but that seems too obvious. And I think Miles was looking strange after Sayid “died” because he was not hearing/feeling Sayid’s soul. So I don’t think Sayid was ever dead – just in transition of the re-birth. I think he has been redeemed.

    • Funk Willis

      Did you not just read the article above?

  • Peter

    I think this story has been set up quite nicely. It’s a race against time. Locke (MIB) trying to kill Jack on the island before Jack fixes Locke off the island (making his life “worth something” again). Its almost like a “what if I die scenario” Jacob put in place as one last “sticking it to the man”. If Jack fixes Locke first, that storyline is how the show will end. Giving both of their lives – purpose again.

    • Nate

      That’s a great theory Peter!

    • RyanK

      I like it Peter. Very nice.

    • Mike

      That is really impressive thinking – I love it and I could see it being absolutely correct.

    • Celia

      I love it! I almost want it to be untrue because I don’t want to be spoiled, but I think MIB’s home is the temple or somewhere else. Not America.

      • Kal

        Yeah…most probably is the temple.
        On a side note…i for one am digging flocke’s character.
        He is a bad ass.

      • ckay

        I agree Celia. MIB was somehow banned from the temple ( we will be shown how in some episode ) and he is trying to ragain his ‘kingdom’. It is the ‘others or pirates’ purpose to keep him from getting back in the temple.

      • Celia

        I’m digging “Flocke’s” character as well. He’s creepy in a good way, but I feel bad for old Locke because of the story Flocke told Ben about what Locke was thinking when Ben killed him. How sad was that?

      • mark

        I am confused and fascinated by the smokey/temple issue. I think the temple is smokey/MIB’s home and he wants to get back to his home. But didn’t smokey drag Rousseau’s people into the temple (Jin saw it when he was bouncing around time). What year did that occur? In other words, when was the temple smokey’s home, and when did he likely get kicked out? And by whom?

      • Freckles

        @Celia.. what i want to know is how did Flock know Locke’s thoughts?

    • Admiral Quality

      Interesting idea, but presumably flight 815 was still back in 2004, and the on-island timeline is now-ish. So how does this “race” work?

    • lele

      that would awesome!

    • jules

      Awesome theory

    • Nancy

      The stories are not parallel. The flight of Oceanic 815 and the action at LAX took place in the past while the action on the island is taking place in the present (as Admiral Quality pointed out). It’s possible that Jack already fixed Locke’s back in 2004 and the chain of events that brings them to the island will be different than the ones we saw in earlier seasons. Maybe these characters are destined to be together on the island no matter what they do to change the course of events. Their lives may intersect in L.A. leading them right back where they started.

      • Gabe

        But the island is underwater. I think there two separate dimensions, like on Fringe.

    • KT

      I think the stories are parallel..in the interview the exec producers said “season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past. But the idea of continuing to do paradoxical storytelling is not what we’re interested in this year”

      • Admiral Quality

        It may not be about time travel but Lost has always had flashbacks or flash-forwards, or now the shifting thing. But they’re not just shifting to an alternate timeline in the same time, they’re also shifting BACK when we see them on 815 and at LAX. The two realities we’re flipping between don’t match in time. One is a new beginning, and the other is the end that we haven’t seen play out yet.

      • ogam5

        My take on the dissolve-to-sunken Island sweep is that it’s still very much a part of Jack’s – and for that matter, possibly all the Losties’ – subconscious minds, that it will definitely still affect events in the off-Island reality to a certain degree…..but it’s very interesting to contemplate that something associated with the reset gambit did cause its submersion – possibly, as with Atlantis if the accompanying theory is to believed, supporting crustal volcanic vents collapsed in the detonation or some time after?

    • Leisa

      Another good theory, I’m so excited to see how it all plays out. This one when put together with Jenn’s theory make it all fit together perfectly.

    • ebola

      I like this theory b/c it offers further hope for the story of Locke. I was never really satisfied with Locke ending up a chump and a vessel for the MIB.

      • Lolita Hansen

        I agree. I always felt Locke deserved alot better than to be strangled by Ben. After everything he has been through and had done to him, he deserved better. And the fact that his last thoughts were “I dont understand” made it even sadder.

      • Hopeful

        I agree. That whole conversation between FLocke and Ben about what Locke was thinking when Ben killed him was heart breaking. I think that we will definitely be more to the story of the actual Locke and he will be redeemed.

      • drhgl19

        Locke is a chump. It totally fits his character from the flashbacks and the flashforwards.

        He’s a lovable and sympathetic chump, but a chump nonetheless.

    • junierizzle

      I like your theory too.

      This is what I think. I think that it did work. And now we are seeing the results of it working and not working. At some point they are going to have to choose which world they want to stay in.

  • plum

    sorry for west-coasters, but SPOILERS!

    what do you all make of the scenes in the plane? I rewatched Episode 1 last week-end. In it, it’s Jack who’s NOT scared of the bumpy plane and HE tells Rose not to worry. But in the “new” Oceanic flight, it’s the other way around. Jack is not the cocky hero anymore?

    … and Desmond was not on the flight, how come he’s there in the “new” reality?

    • Walt

      I think Desmond will be key to making sense of all of this. Remember, the rules don’t apply to him so if there is going to be some connection I think it will be him. And was it just me or did Jack have this weird satisfied, deja vu-ish look on his face the whole time in the flash sideways?

      • Naj

        I totally agree.. I initially thought that Jack was the only one that remembered everything. I’m still confused.

      • IrishSharon

        There was defintely recognition on Jack’s face when he saw Desmond, and some when his eyes met Kate’s.

      • Nate

        Remember Season 2, when Jack meets Desmond in the stadium running steps? Desmond called him brother then too. I believe that’s what he remembers of him. Or maybe you’re right and his memory of the island comes back to them all through deja-vus and dreams.

      • madmenlost

        Desmond is the Constant between the two parallel worlds…

      • Xorp

        I thought that maybe Desmond was there to save Charlie. Pretty much as soon as he sat down, they heard the call looking for a doctor. As soon as Jack returned to his seat, Des was gone.

      • Mary Q. Contrary

        @madmenlost: Yes! I think you’re right. That makes perfect sense, and it also supports my theory that Desmond knows more than he’s letting on when he and Jack speak on the plane.

      • WOW!

        But then why did Des disappear?

      • A

        Remember, Desmond is Farraday’s constant…something we have yet to see come into play. Plus, Farraday cried when he saw the crash…like he already knew something about the people…there has to be something more to this.

      • Aran

        I have always felt that Desmond’s story arc is used to provide answers to some of the more complex mysteries of the show. No doubt, if he has an episode this season, it will be filled with a lot of juicy material!

      • Lost in time

        I thought maybe we were seeing Desmond in one of his time traveling episodes. He did mention in some episode about no matter what he did Charlie was going to have to die. How else did he know this? I figured he must have gone through several different possibilities before finishing with what we saw on the island. But since the island is underwater and related, this may happen to be some artifact of time travel. I’m sorry I can’t explain my thought better.

    • Jen

      I don’t know why I noticed this, but in the pilot, Jack was sitting in row 23. In this episode, he (and Rose and Bernard) were in row 24, and Hurley says he’s the luckiest guy in the world. Lots of little things were “off” like that. Cool. No idea what it means–it was just cool.

      • Nate

        Greg Grunberg the guy that played the pilot of the plane and who also plays Matt Parkman on Heroes, said in an interview that he will be on one of the first season 6’s episodes. Playing the pilot again.

      • melissa

        Grunberg was on last night’s episode – he was the voice of the pilot on new Flight 815. We just didn’t see him.

      • Sue

        Also Cindy the stewardess only hands Jack 1 extra drink. In the original, she hands him 2 so he could put 1 in his pocket to use later to cleanse his wounds.

      • Jaime

        It was his voice as the pilot on the plane.

    • Lostest

      And don’t forget Hurley saying, “Nothing bad ever happens to me” while on the flight 815. The was polar opposite of his attitude in the first episode.

      • BobJ

        Hurley no longer had bad luck because the destruction of the island in ’77 ended/prevented the connection of the numbers to Hurley. He still won the lottery, but there’s no mention of what numbers he played – could have been something other than the Ven sequence. Hurley’s original string of bad luck, tied to the numbers, was meant to drive him to the island and prepare him for his role there.

    • DR

      I think Desmond is on the plane because the whole reason he was on the island in the first place was because his boat crashed (I hope I’m getting this right), so if the island was submerged, he never would have crashed. He likely finished the race and was just living the rest of his life as it would have gone without the crash.

      • Kris

        Well, actually Desmond would have never done the race at all. Because the whole reason he was doing the boat race was to win Penny back and anger her dad, Charles Widmore. If the island gets sunk when the bomb blows in 1977, it would directly affect Charles Widmore and his daughter Penny. Desmond would never have met Penny, and therefore, never have to win her back. ALSO, Desmond got the boat that he used in the race from Libby, who inherited it from her dead husband. So when the island blew up/sunk in 1977, it stands to reason that Libby’s life was also somehow affected, because she never met Desmond to offer him the boat. So the question is: how did the 1977 event change Charles Widmore’s life, and how did it affect Libby’s? Since Desmond never went on the race, he never crashed, and was never in the hatch. Instead, he’s on a plane and runs into Jack (who he had met previously at a stadium when he was running).

      • BobJ

        Wasn’t Widmore still on the island in ’77? If he died there and then, no Penny/Desmond connection.

      • mentalitarian

        possibly dumb question, but charles widmore was banished from the island at some point in ben’s adult life, yeah? has there been an explanation about whether penny was born on the island or lived there at any point? she’s always seemed to be oblivious to charles’ evil doings, but i wonder if she knows more about the history of the island than it seems.

  • plum

    …and when Jack saves Charlie on the plane, Charlie tells him he SHOULD have died. Any meaning to that?

    …and notice the stewardess on the plane that gave Jack a couple mini-bottles of alcool is also now an Other, she’s the one who said to the “Leader” that they were on Oceanic with her.

    …and….so many new questions!!!

    • Dave

      If I’m not mistaken, the stewardess was Cindy. She was a tail section survivor (with Ana Lucia, Libby, etc). The Others captured her, and I believe she went along living with them.

      • plum

        right! thanks

      • rokgerl

        You’re right…Cindy has always been there. She was on one of the lists and was taken by the others.

      • pop

        cindy was originally an other. she was the stewardess on the plane and infiltrated the tailies. she left back to the others when they were trekking to the beach. remember? she went up to the cages and said “we’re here to watch”

      • KS

        Pop: Does this mean that you think that they KNEW the plane was going to crash originally? And if that’s true, why is she on the plane that DOESN’T crash???

      • Erin

        I though Cindy disappeared into thin air. I remember her vanishing on some trek.. or am I making things up?

      • Nancy

        The two kids who were with Cindy and the Others in the Temple were also tail section survivors, so Cindy’s not the only one who is in two places at once. The kids were too young at the time of the crash of Oceanic 815 to have been Others as women were no longer able to give birth on the island for a reason yet to be revealed (related to the bomb blast, perhaps). I didn’t notice the kids on the rebooted Oceanic 815. Didn’t Cindy identify Kate, Jack, et al as survivors of the first plane crash when they arrived at the Temple?

      • Jen

        Cite your source, Pop–there’s no proof of what you’re saying. As far as the actual show goes, Cindy was a flight attendant. When 815 crashed, she was in the tail section. While trekking thru the jungle w/the tailies (Ana Lucia, Eko, etc.), she disappeared. The two kids were shown being taken by the Others earlier. But there was nothing ever said or shown on the show to reveal that Cindy was always an Other, or that she was infiltrating the Tailies. Just because she said “We’re here to watch, Jack,” doesn’t mean she was always an Other, but just that she had become one. I’d like to know your source, Pop, and whether it is canon or just another Lostpedia theory.

      • Nate

        Ya, where IS Libby, Echo and Anna Lucia? Haven’t seen them on the plane?

      • JB

        Right, the pthers kidnapped her when the tailies were found and making their way to the beach where all of the castaways were. I forget who stumbled upon them but Libby and AnaLucia and Rose’s hubbie were all found with her.

      • To Jen

        Lighten up!!!! Wow…I’m thinking pop was just posting a theory. Have you ever done that? And been wrong? Oh I guess not since you seem to know everything and jump on the first person that doesn’t have tangible evidence to anything that opposes your thoughts.

      • Jamie

        And it also stands to reason that she knows something about the parallel world because she mentions something about being on the second plane. Is she referring to the new flight?

    • sf

      ya the Others took her midway through Season 2, she was with the tailies. So that’s why she’s with them.

      • Brian

        Because pop is incorrect. Cindy was not originally an Other. She only became one after the crash of Oceanic 815. Before that she was a flight attendant.

      • Michelle

        Maybe pop was theorizing…like everyone else is on this board.

      • ogam5

        Sorry, Pop is likely correct (if not completely substantiated). I’m inclined to believe that Cindy WAS on 815 as a plant; we know that all the Others are very much prepared to give their lives – not sure how there was advanced knowledge of it crashing but the runway being built on Hydra Island is ample evidence of as much – I’ve long theorized that it AND possibly Ajira 316 were supposed to land safely but Inman deliberately drew Desmond away from the Swan so that Ben and the Others would be thwarted from bringing key people per Jacob to the Island via 815 (likely on orders of Widmore, possibly being misled by the MIB?)

    • Admiral Quality

      In the original 2004 events, she (Cindy) gives Jack TWO bottles. One of which he drinks immediately, the other he pockets and uses it to clean his wound when Kate’s stitching it up.

      I caught that immediately and doubt it’s a continuity error.

      • Skip182

        I don’t think it’s an error, it’s just a different version of what we already saw. Like how Jack has longer hair, and not the shaved head he origionally had.

      • WOW!

        Cuse and Lindelof said it is not coincidence that he only received 1 bottle of vodka. My guess is that since the plane isn’t going to crash, Jack no longer needs that second bottle of vodka that he uses to clean his wound.

      • Admiral Quality

        Yep, saw them confirm it on Kimmel. But how does Cindy know not to offer him two bottles because he doesn’t need another one because the plane isn’t going to crash? (Or did Jack make a point the first time in asking for two? I don’t recall that but can’t be sure without rewatching.)

      • Skip182

        Ugh, come on guys, this isn’t that hard: the events on the plane are different due to the altered past. Cindy doesn’t “know” to give him 1 instead of 2, because it doesn’t matter. She reached into a pocket and come out with 1 instead of 2. Important? No. It’s only used to illustrate that changing the past brings about different events. That’s all.

      • jr

        Jack still gets an extra bottle but doesn’t save it, he NEEDS it now to take edge off white knuckle plane ride.

      • Admiral Quality

        No jr, Jack got TWO extra bottles the first time around. One he drank, one Kate poured on his wound to sterilize it before stitching him up. Darlton said this WAS significant on Kimmel last night. So it means *something*.

      • melissa

        Jack has the same hair (a little longer and parted) on the Island and on “new” Flight 815 (different from his original really short hair).

    • Erica

      That was Cindy…she was in Season 1 and was an “Other” with Richard Alpert…they kidnapped the two kids that Ana Lucia was watching over in Season 2.

      • Michelle

        Careful Erica…Jen’s gonna jump all over you if you don’t have proof that Cindy is an Other. Better start researching!

    • jq

      Perhaps Desmond is on the flight because he still feels responsible for saving Charlie’s life (his visions).

      • JohnLost

        Also, Desmond was gone when Jack came back to his seat and no one else acknowledged that he was actually there on the plane.

    • Funk Willis

      Plum – I think Charlie said that because he was trying to commit suicide. (Perhaps now he will get clean and go on to become successful again?)

  • Celia

    And the Island was SUBMERGED!! I completely forgot about that. That was so creepy!

    • Vick

      That’s what happens when you through a hydrogen bomb in a hole in the middle of the island, it breaks the foundation that it was standing on.

    • Rock Golf

      Vick: NO IT ISN’T! If a hydrogen bomb goes off, then the village would have been flattened. Instead we saw ample underwater evidence that the village homes were largely intact, but underwater. Also we saw the Dharma-stamped shark swim by.
      That infers that 1) the bomb didn’t sink the island. 2) the island sank much MUCH more recently.

      • Celia

        Why do I ALWAYS miss these dang sharks? Clearly I’m not paying close enough attention. I have yet to see one.

  • Sarah

    Here’s what I think: Yes, the time travel is fascinating. Yes, the parallel storytelling is intriguing, particularly since we have ‘lost’ Locke (now the dark haired bad guy) and Sayid (now Jacob) on the island. It’s nice to have them around as themselves in LA. But I want to hear from the creators that the PEOPLE and their RELATIONSHIPS will be the center of the show’s resolution. These are great actors playing great characters with heart-wrenching connectedness and decency and I will be really let down if that is abandoned in order to weave another mystery.

    • Dave

      They have already said that the most important thing this year will be character resolutions, so I wouldn’t worry.

    • Mike

      Yea, read any interview with them from before the premiere (and there have been countless interviews) and they always say that it’s the relationships that are the core of the show and they will maintain that this season.

    • Walt

      I don’t think Sayid is the new Jacob. I think that will be Hurley. They said the fountain was not clear anymore so I think that’s why the healing took longer. It seemed like that was tied into the fact that Jacob is dead now. And that must be what they did to young Ben Linus.

      • laylagalise

        Yeah, I’m skeptical that Sayid is now Jacob, too. I worry that because the water wasn’t clear something is not right about Sayid.

      • amj

        Agreed, I think the spring was dirty either due to Jacob’s death or the sins of Sayid. Not sure.

      • KT

        I think Hurley is gonna be more important..’member Jacob told him he was special/gifted and not cursed in the cab

      • talia1

        So if Jacob wanted to inhabit Sayid’s body, why did Jacob’s note say that if Sayid died, they were all in alot of trouble?

      • Lost in Nevada

        The time it took to heal Sayid depends on the meaning of the hourglass. Either it tells when he is done or it indicates a maximum time allowable to be submerged in the spring. We don’t know which.

      • Rob

        In order to bring Jack closer to true faith, they had to have Sayid fully die, have Jack attempt to save him (fail) and witness with his own eyes, Sayid return to life.

      • jpt

        Maybe the water was not clear because it had just been used to bring Locke back to life (now inhabited by the smoke monster). And the Japanese guy must not have known this because he was surprised when he saw the water.

      • Tim

        Sayid is MIB using as another dead person and to get inside the temple. I thought it was pretty evident, but I could be wrong.

      • Tyler

        Tim, the MIB doesnt inhabit dead people…The real body of Locke still exists. The MIB just takes the form of someone that has died, doesnt actually use the body.

        Also, i don’t think Jacob inhabited Sayid either…I guess it’s possible, but I just don’t see the show going that way. Besides, if Jacob did, it was apparent that nobody there saw it coming…they didnt know Jacob had died and were very concerned about what was happening…i dont know though…i need to watch it a couple more times!

    • KT

      you said it sarah..I want more stories with the characters and not have to think so much about the logistics of all the time traveling stuff

      • J

        KT – Hurley is special bc he can see dead people.

    • Shaun

      Ugh… Look, the characters are great (though I wish Kate would die already) but the mysteries and mythology of the show are what make Lost so unique. There’s so much fascinating stuff that needs to be answered, and that’s what I want to see. If the plotting is good, then the characters will shine through. I seriously hope Darlton DOES NOT make the entire season all about stuff like “Who will Kate choose?” I’ve never cared about that! There are plenty of other shows out there if you’re into that kind of stuff. Lost is a different animal entirely. I don’t want it become a soap opera.

      • Sparks

        Shaun, you took the words right out of my mouth. This is not Grey’s Anatomy! Lost is great and unique BECAUSE of the mysteries. However, I do like seeing the stories of the characters intertwine and how their past stories affect their behavior now but I could care less about stupid love triangles. Nevertheless, I did enjoy Sawyer and Juliet’s relationship because it felt real and genuine. But the main focus for me is still the nerdy stuff.

      • Rissa

        I agree Kate needs to go. Shaun you are absolutely right…who cares who she will choose. I need to know more about the good vs evil, are our characters destined to repeat and do the same things, qualities of man, the relationship between jacob and the mib. The way the MIB acted when he was speaking to Ben makes me wonder was he forced to be on the island. He is desperate to leave. I want to know if Richard came on on the slave ship. Who cares about Kate and Jack or Kate and Sawyer!

      • MONIQUE

        @sparks and shaun..you guys aren’t looking at the big picture. If Kate were to end up with Jack then she become more involved in the story of the island because obviously the Shepard bloodline could mean something. Jack/Christian/Claire..Jacks grandfathers shoes, Kate taking care of Aaron, Claires son. I just want to find out whats up with all of that. Stop hating Kate. She is a loving, strong character with a fight in her of a tiger. her strength will be a vital part in what transpires.

      • Lost in time

        I’m not a fan of the triangle either. But now something’s got me wondering if there may not be more to it than what meets the eye. Perhaps the fate of the island or some great plot changes will be dependent on who she chooses. That’d be the only way they could make that particular thing interesting for me. But then again that may be rather corny if they do it that way.

  • Amy

    I have, as usual – perhaps even MORE so – NO IDEA *WHATSOVER* as to what went on here tonight.

    Having said that, I have also been sucked back in full force.

    MIB is such a bad A**

    • Luke

      OMG Amy.. I laughed my a** off after reading your post..

  • sllambe

    while they may be “flash-sideways”, they are definitely the ending to the Lost narrative. i believe the man in black’s attempt to get off the island will be the final moment that causes the “reboot”. but you still have to wonder why he couldn’t have spun the donkey wheel to get off…

    • Katja

      I didn’t even think about the man whom I shall now call Mr. Smokey not even trying to spin the donkey wheel to get off. Interesting. I am dying to know what he calls “home” and how he got stuck on the island with Jacob, and why the Others were sort of able to semi-control him by calling him forth, but now he’s just wreaking havoc of his own accord, it seems.

      • Katja

        I am so excited by all of this, I can’t even properly construct sentences any more. Whoops.

      • levi

        the term ‘home’ means going back to heaven…the devil has been trying to find his way back home for some time and finally found his loophole.

      • Fred

        The Others trapped him in the cabin by putting that salt around the cabin. I doubt that the others worked with smokey. But I DO believe the man in black aka smokey was the cause of all those appearances we’ve seen on the island by our lostaways.

      • M&M

        I think MIB/Smokie is the devil. The devil was cast out of heaven by God and now he wants to go “home”

      • Rissa

        OMG Katja…exactly! What is his home? We are on the same page. He was forced to be on the island! It has to be…mythology, egyptian?

      • eve

        Levi – I like where you’re going with that!

      • Jamie

        If that is the case and he is Satan. Then who is Jacob because Jacob claims to be killed by an old friend that tired of his company?

    • Bobby

      I don’t think the man wants to get off the island… he wants to get back to the temple. The real temple, not the underground one where the smoke (him) was last season.

      • Brian

        I think that’s a good call, Bobby. Nice work.

      • KT

        what is the deal with the circle of powder that they are putting around the temple?? Some answers but som many more questions now…Love it

      • LAJACKIE

        It’s the same powder that was around Jacob’s shack. And one of the shooters in the foot poured it around himself. It’s a barrier against Smokey.

      • Skip182

        Like witches and salt.

      • Michelle

        The “powder” is ash. It protects them from MIB

      • ckay

        Jacob summoned the ship, what was the name? Black Pearl? Remember MIB accussed him of that when they were on the beach. When the castaways were first discovering the island they found the ship way inland…and then sometime later found the remains of the of the statue…the foot with three toes we saw last night under water.
        So…did the island sink long before the crash of 815 and even Dharma? Maybe Dharma had something to do with the island rising out of the ocean?

      • Funk Willis

        KT – It’s not so much the ash, but the fact that they make a circle with it. Circles are used in magic to protect from or contain a demon.

  • Stef

    This is so crazy. I just really hope that the “flash sideways” won’t be really depressing

  • kal

    that was awesome

  • Rob

    I think the thing to consider at this point is that the alternative reality is not connected to the reality we’ve come to know. If the island was sunk in the past, this would inhibit Desmond from ever going there, but how would he find his way to Oceanic 815? The challenge with the flash-sideways is that timeline changes are not going to be explained, and I think many LOST viewers aren’t inclined to take things at face value…

    • rokgerl

      Maybe Des went on the boat race around the world which ended in Australia…??

      • sbwm

        The race Libby sponsored – right?

      • LOST :)

        Yes, that’s the one…she gave him her boat, right?

      • Brian

        That “race around the world” was just something Charles Widmore cooked up to help him find the Island after he was banished from it. With no Island to get back to, no need for him to organize that race. Of course, that’s assuming that the Island was sunk sometime before 2001, when the race was held…

      • amj

        And, yes, Des had been on the island pushing that button for several years so the boat race would be a large amount of time prior to flight 815. But the funny thing was that exchange about Jack saying haven’t we met to Des. Yes, they did meet..in that stadium where Des was running. Right before the race.

      • Rich

        But if the Island was sunk in the 1970s, Charles Widmore was on the island. Therefore Widmore would be dead, Penny would not exist, and Desmond would never go on the boat race for it never existed.

      • Rock Golf

        RICH: The Island wasn’t sunk in the 1970’s. Look at the evidence in the underwater scene.

      • Nikolas

        they will drive us crazy for sure with so many if not hahah. LOST

      • Cliff

        In 1977, Penny is most likely alive. She was born off-island, when Charles would do his “visits”…Her birth is what leads to his banishment. The one that is never born (of Charles and Eloise) is Daniel Faraday.

      • Jaime

        @ Rich – Good thinking. But Penny may still be alive since Widmore was banished from the island for having an off-island family. That family probably existed already in 1977. There lives just went on without Widmore.

      • amj

        Plus, Widdmore was on this island in the 50’s not necessarily the 70’s?

      • Emiliee

        Widmore was on the island in 1977 because we saw him in the episode Follow The Leader, just before Eloise and Richard took Jack and Kate to the hydrogen bomb.

    • Brian

      People are making the assumption that we know exactly what the physical mechanics of the reboot are. We have no idea how the energy pocket affected the nuclear blast etc. It may not have been a typical explosion at all. We cannot make assumptions about who died or even exactly when the island sank. All we know is that it’s a sunken island in 2004. Making it possible that widmore left the island at some point after the incident…or maybe not. In the reboot reality something else could have taken desmond to australia(and he is the constant), remember things aren’t exactly the same. There are infinite possibilities, I think it’s best to let some of them suss out before we put all these carts before all these horses. With that said, the big connection I’m noticing is in the pivotal items that were needed on the island are coming up missing, but if that’s consistent why does the agent still have his gun, that was one of the big power struggles in early season one.

      • Graham

        I agree. There is no evidence as to when the island sunk, EXCEPT that it was obviously after Dharmaville was built and of course prior to 2004.

      • ckay

        I think the island has ‘sunk’ and ‘risen’ more than once. Why else would the pirate ship be so land locked in 2004?

    • J

      Perhaps since Desmond can time travel, he is on the plane for a short amount of time. He is only there before they pass the island. Jack’s dad, as well.

  • pop

    nothings irreversible.

    • Shaun

      I don’t think the island was sunk in 1977. I think bomb merely set off another chain of events in that new “pocket universe” or “bubble” or whatever you want to call it that, at some point in time, led to the island’s sinking. It’s what Darlton said in the interview above… The Losties only thought about changing their fortunes, not what else might happen as a consequence of the bomb. The fact that houses, etc. were seemingly intact tells me that it wasn’t the bomb that sunk the island. it sunk much more recently than 1977.

      • Anna Rose

        i don’t think the island sunk in 1977…the new otherton was built, the seris of event to destroy the statue had to have happened and shark with the dharma logo was shown things had to have progressed past the bomb.

      • Graham

        New Otherton was Dharmaville and it was completely built in ’77. The statue was most likely already destroyed in ’77. Sharks can live anywhere from 30-100 years. So the island could certainly have sunk in ’77.

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