Jay Leno invited Jimmy Kimmel on his show last night, purportedly to reassure viewers there were no hard feelings over Kimmel’s Tuesday-night stunt in which he dressed up as and imitated Leno for his entire show. Not smart.
Joining the pantheon of runaway guests (Stephen Colbert at the White House Correspondents dinner, Artie Lange‘s NSFW rant on Joe Buck’s show), Kimmel mercilessly piled on Leno with zingers rooted in the perception that Leno is responsible for NBC’s current late-night stare-down with Conan O’Brien. One of Leno’s questions for Kimmel was, “What is the worst idea your writers have ever pitched to you?” After watching this entire Hindenberg-caliber disaster, I can assure you I know what Leno’s own answer would be. Oh, the humanity!
What was Leno thinking? And why didn’t he fight back?
Did Kimmel go too far, especially when he reminded Leno that the former Tonight Show host doesn’t have children to support like he and O’Brien do? How can Leno possibly spin this?
Please learn the proper use of ‘to’, ‘too’ and ‘two’ or I swear to god I will stop reading this site.
Um, where is it used incorrectly?
LOL, I was thinking the same thing!!!
Duh, they moderate the comments and fix typos that commenters point out.
They fixed it. Initially it said, “Did Kimmel go to far?”.
Dude needs to have his eyeball checked.
Ausiello does it all the time. Except rather than fixing it when people call him on it, he just deletes the whole sentence. Possibly because he still doesn’t know the difference between to/too/two.
Relax, grammar nazis! This is EW. It’s not one of those professional journals you cite in your English 101 term paper.
Okay…so are people actually talking about the whole Leno-Kimmel issue or is this some kind of debate over proper grammar usage??
Two question marks Celia? What the!?!?..I’m just kidding.
The worst part of this whole Jay/Conan thing is that Jay is going to come out on top. Talk about a heck of a job, Brownie!
Jay will get his old show back, and while I don’t understand it myself I bet he’ll be the number one late night talk show host again. Meanwhile Conan will probably have to sit on the sidelines for a year before he can go back to work.
Really Eyeball? Is that the ONLY thing you have to complain about? You are one sorry piece of work.
I love Kimmell’s show
Funny. But c’mon – children to support? As if Conan’s 10-15 mill per year isn’t enough to keep them in private school?
“I just hope you don’t mind me being a soldier” Huh?
Ha–apparently Eyeball’s vision is a little worse for wear. I only saw two mentions of “to,” “too,” etc., and they were both used correctly. Perhaps Eyeball should learn their proper use.
Articles are often edited after they are first posted, particularly when people comment on the errors.
They fixed it after he made his comment.
BUT ANYWAY about the 10 at 10 my guess is that NBC was tired of being slammed by Jay and he was told to do this and take on some hits directly. I’m guessing he thought that Kimmell wouldn’t go that far – the children comment especially – right to his face. Ouch. I felt bad for his wife (who is infertile) but not him, actually. He’s got to take this one on the chin!!
@tara
Its not being a “grammar nazis” – this is a very BASIC understanding of the English langauge – and speaking of the langauge should get it right.
Apart from that, Yes Kimmel went way too (see, two o’s
far.
Hey Shadow Step if YOU are going to complain about grammar, why did you capitalize the Y in yes when it was not the first word in the beginning of the sentence? That proves not everyone is perfect. Enough already!
By the way the questions were worded it was clearly a set up. However judging by Jay’s reaction, I don’t think he expected Jimmy to go as FAR as he did. AWKWARD!!!!!!
@ShadowStep: it’s “language”, not “langauge.”
I am amused by people who call others out on grammar, but cannot seem to get it right themselves. And then, when *they* are called out on their own errors, they suddenly pull the “typo” card. Take two minutes to proofread before hitting “post comment,” people. Or better yet–let it go. If people who are *paid* to write get it wrong, then they deserve to get called out. People who post to comment boards get a pass (to a point).
@Shadow Step: You also forgot the closing parenthesis.
This comment made me go back and re-read the article and I don’t see where it’s used wrong either. I wouldn’t care though; I look at this site for pure entertainment and not to get an education in English and grammar. (let the grammar maven loose)
You shouldn’t have to get an education in grammar at this point, it should already be in place. Especially if you are a journalist.
Yeah, sorry guys, I’ll have to go with Eyeball on this one…as an editor/copywriter by profession, incorrect grammar usage on a site of this calibre is unforgiveable. Anyway, glad whatever error is fixed.
And I think it was Kimmel’s perogative to “cross the line”–he has to go home to Sarah Silverman, after all. Totally lame of Leno not to be quicker on his feet with a response. Perhaps he was gagged by NBC, but he knew why Kimmel was coming on and should have been prepared to respond.
*unforgivable.
Too far? I thought Kimmel was boring on Leno, except the monkey thing. This big controversy over low ratings is rather dull and lackluster. Fitting, huh?
Elysia, it’s “prerogative.”
Not sure what article you are looking at, because the few uses of “to, too, and two” were correct.
“purportedly to reassure” preposition
“writers have ever pitched to you” preposition
“go too far” adverb
“children to support” (helping) verb
grammar.about.com has some great practice exercises if you are still confused about this!
I just want to say thank you to EW for making me look like the asshole here. Mostly though thanks for fixing the goddam typo.
Eyeball they didn’t make you look like it, you did that to yourself!!!!
Fa fa fa hilarious Kev. How to compete with such wit, and with so many exclamation points.
in “purportedly to reassure” the ‘to’ is part of an infinitive. (technically speaking it’s a particle, but that’s real grammar nerditude.)
purportedly = adverb
to reassure = infinitive
If they fixed the article, Eyeball, then why wasn’t the article posted again AFTER you mentioned it at 10:28 on the 15th. Their original was posted at 10:21 and if they made fixes per your request then they would have posted an updated story after your suggestion at 10:26.
Please stop reading this site. I cannot believe the amount of hand wringing that occurs when there are typos in blog posts. The only reason anyone seems to point out typos is to show off that they’ve spotted them. Stop it.
When you have multiple writers putting up dozens of news items a day, then yes, there will be typos. Mistakes happen. If it really bothers that you much, save your self the energy and frustration and stop reading the site!
You’re a moron. Our society has become “dumbed-down” and people like you are content to read mistake-filled copy. However, some of us still expect mass media to be copy-edited and correct! Instead of copy-editing before something goes live, EW often waits until a reader points out mistakes and then corrects them.
Yeah it doesn’t bother you dude because you don’t know how to spell either.
Two of the job requirements for professional journalists are having excellent grammar and the ability to proofread. Right now, there is a huge number of really talented journalists who are out of work, because that particular job market has been trimmed to the bone. A blog post means it is a shorter piece, and the writer has even less of an excuse for errors.
This is not some private citizen’s blog – this is publication – these are PROFESSIONAL writers and editors (i.e. they do this for a living). They definitely should not have to wait for reader comments to correct the post. The National Enquirer has higher standards regarding spelling and grammar.
Agree with you here. If it’s a main article, expect it to be perfect. If it’s a blog written quickly or breaking news, expect errors. Readers will complain, where’s the story, where’s the story? But if you post something quickly and there are errors the site gets blasted for mistakes that are easily fixed.
Just read the article and let the editors worry about tge mistake.
Signed – someone in publishing that has to do this everyday.
See, it just happened to me.
Another thing FLGirl, just because you’re a writer does not mean you know everything about grammar. Any writer would tell you that,
If it bothers you, why do you continue to read (and comment on) these error filled blog posts? What does it gain you to continue to give EW the readership they need for ad dollars if you are so unhappy with the product? Why are you spending your time commenting on their mistakes? Do you think EW will read these and feel dutifully shamed because Eyeball and Cardsgal ripped a new one in the comments section? What are you hoping the end result will be beside the self satisfied feeling of being right where a mass media outlet was wrong?
And by the way… this PopWatch. Not journalism. No offense to the people who write these (the majority of which I enjoy and appreciate), but they’re not out there finding leads, asking the tough questions, and doing extensive background research. They’re rounding up the nuggets of pop culture that are released by other mass media outlets into one place. This blog is essentially an content aggregator for clips, trailers, gossip, and misc. entertainment items. Let’s not kid ourselves about the level of importance when it comes to grammar here.
NJ — You said just what I was thinking. It’s a no win situation. I’m starting to wonder if I’m going to see any comments relevant to the article here, or if everything is going to focus on the omission of an “o,” which was clearly just a typo.
No the only reason to point them out is not to ‘show that you’ve spotted them.’ Professional journalists MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE should still have some freaking basic ability to write proper English, demonstrate it to readers, and to record it for historical purposes. That these journalists regularly pepper their articles with misspelled and misperceived words and phrases, as well as glaring grammatical errors, definitely deserves to be pointed out and corrected. That’s a nice thing about the web, that they can *correct* them after the fact.
David, you are clearly an imbecile. This is a PROFESSIONAL website, not some bored writer’s blog. Proofreading is a fundamental concept for any writer.
Juliette, thank you. That’s a well reasoned argument and I can certainly agree that pointing them out does allow for the mistakes to be changed. In fact, they’re changed before 99% of all readers will ever see this post. And that is one of the best things about the internet – we all get to play a hand in the creation and correction of stories and sites both big and small. I took issue more with the level of anger coming from these comments. If just makes no sense to me that if you’re fed up with typos and errors, why not just stop reading? Otherwise, you’re just yelling to yell.
Wow… moron, imbecile, and responsible for the dumbing down of society. This is pretty much my best day ever.
If I spot typos in the story and offer a correction, it’s usually because I trust that the writer cares as much as I do (a frightening assumption, now that I think about it) and just made a simple typo. Or, to just try to help. I don’t hold it against them or use it as a judgment of their intellect or command of the language, though there are those who do. And sometimes, I look up my corrections before posting them and discover I was wrong, not the writer! I was reading the recap of “Glee” (I think), for the episode featuring Josh Groban, and the writer quoted “Josh Groban loves a blowsy alcoholic”. Quite sure it was spelled “blousy”, I started drafting a snarky post about how OBVIOUS it is that it’s spelled “blousy” as it refers to older women in blouses being all drunk, and fortunately looked it up before hitting “Post”. Sometimes I learn from attempting to correct people, and lord help me if I correct someone incorrectly! >.<
Yep. The reason people harp on typos is because they don’t have anything of substance to say. Things like correcting your/you’re are at least something their mind can grapple with.
agreed. seriously if it upsets you that much just stop reading any article by this journalist. your high horse is just two high for us lesser beings. If you do find that Jeff is a terrible writer or a moron, than the jokes on you cause your reading his postings. stop reading it and stop crying about it.
Hilarious, dudes. I just wanted them to fix the damn spelling error and you guys turned it into a class war. Who is overreacting now?
Oh, also, Vetinari? Go to hell. You can’t jump on the wagon with people saying to stop overreacting to minor errors when they are on something as trivial as an entertainment blog and then criticize for not having anything of substance to say.
Or I guess you can, but it makes you sound like an idiot.
Yes, Eyeball, you are so above it all.
Eat me, dude.
stupid, you should have wrote “yourself” instead of “your self” Learn too spell.
First of all excellent grammar and ability to proofread is not a requirement for a journalist. That’s the editor’s job. There are a lot of journalists that can’t spell or type. Secondly, this is a blog not a news article. The posts go up randomly throughout the day most likely without being reviewed by an editor. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out spelling and grammar errors so that they can be fixed. Getting worked up about them is another matter.
I totally agree with everything Ana wrote, knowing full well my role in getting worked up on this issue. I just have a problem not with pointing our grammar mistakes, but rather the ‘you messed up, dumb dumb’ elitist attitude that seems to have gotten more and more pervasive in these comments. But again, my attitude toward THAT attitude is not much better. So I will attempt to not add additional incendiary remarks to this thread.
That said… how AWESOME is Leno!? Right, guys? Team Leno!
I agree. If you don’t have anything of substance to add, except to belittle the grammar and spelling, please do leave.
To all of you who are piling on about the misuse of “to/too/two”: Congratulations on missing the point. Had we been looking to read an article on grammar, you probably would take up 47% of the comment section talking about the Conan/Jay Leno squabble.
@pw: you’re spelling your post like that just to make an ironic point, right? Because otherwise it’s frightening.
You all remind me of my Head Start classroom…and they are all 4 years old.
@Tom “you should have written” instead of “you should have wrote”, haha! =P
I love Kimmel! God, Leno is so boring… I can’t watch him!
Leno needs to be the bigger man and just leave television altogether.
wow..an actual comment on the article
And you’re bringing so much to the table with that, Mark.
Friend, your original comment had nothing to do with this story. Instead, you just stirred up a bunch of comments about YOUR comment. Like Mark, I was more interested about reading comments about THE STORY AT HAND. Not a lesson in the proper usage of to, too, and two (although that does annoy me as well. But again, I didn’t come here to read about THAT.)
That said, I agree with UGH. Leno is a g’damned hack who needs to let the door hit him on the way out.
I agree. I love Leno, but he should do the right thing and leave. In fact I’d think he would want to leave. The perfect scenario would be for him and Conan to both leave and leave NBC up the sh*t creek without a paddle. It would serve NBC right!
Hey friend, I didn’t stir up anything. People can just be so adamant about their right to be ignorant.
I don’t understand why NBC doesn’t just leave Leno at 10pm and leave Conan and the rest alone. They’re the ones f*cking up! Just let Leno have his run, and if it gets low ratings then CANCEL it. He doesn’t have to be on tv!!! If he wants another show, let him go to another network! WHAT’S WRONG WITH THEM?! And BTW, Jimmy Kimmel just OWNED Jay Leno! How embarrassing.
worst comments ever.
I agree on a professionally written mainstream publication like EW you’d hold a higher standard than your average blogger, but I’m not so much annoyed by to/too mistakes as I am with your/you’re mistakes. To/too is a fairly common mistake and of course not caught by spell check. I also know that these quick update blog style postings of scoop information are mostly written on the fly, so I can forgive the occasional word gaffe. Now if it’s a repost of an article that goes in the magazine, no holds barred!
I agree with eyeball. It is not TOO much TO ask for these writers at EW to avoid these basic mistakes. It does show a total lack of professionalism on their part. Just my TWO cents. {Yes, I tried using an example of each of the words that have been debated here: to/too/two.}
Also to the RUSH person who is more annoyed by the your/you’re mistakes. He is more forgiving of the to/too slip-ups, as he puts it, because the latter set is “not caught by spell check”. What is the reasoning behind this observation? The words Your/you’re wouldn’t be caught by spell check either…right??? So by RUSH’s standards, shouldn’t the latter not bother him as well? Words have meaning people; we should at least try to use them correctly in a sentence–spell check or no spell check!
/agree
Let that big CHIN, Backstabber have it!! I must admit that I was dissapointed when I first heard Jimmy was gonna be on the show. At First I tought Jimmy was gonna kiss his arse, but he came thru and let that punk have what was coming to him. CLASSIC & AWESOME!!!
Very well said!!!
wow, such animosity for a person you don’t even know and for a situation you are not involved in. if you really think Leno was not aware of what Jimmy was planning to do, you probably don’t watch much television.
What else is there to know, he stabs people in the back. That’s it.
Thank you for posting a comment about what this article was about, instead of giving us an english lesson. What was Leno thinking, having Kimmel on and letting him go off like that? Nice job Jimmy!
Too is used correctly in the article.
I love how the “correct/incorrect grammar” totally bull-dozed the original intent of this article. As one of three sisters growing up, my dad used to charge us every time we used “like” and/or “goes” in place of “said”. He also balked at “Stacey she” or “Pedro he” and the use of “and also” made him seethe with silent fury. Eventually we ran out of change [he charged us dimes for "Kelly, she"; quarters for "like" and/or "goes" [we had a neighbor we adored who spoke like that; she introduced us to soap operas & is now 42 with 5 kids of her own] so I now shudder when I hear someone converse a la Moon Unit Zappa circa Valley Girl. My sisters’ sons are too young to speak yet but I doubt they will charge my nephews a penny.
Gotta agree with most people here. I don’t expect perfect grammar and spelling on blogs like I do in more formal publications. Any real writer will tell you that they are not perfect when it comes to the English language. All I gotta’ say is – if stuff like this gets your blood boiling enough to write a snarky comment – then you are in for one long, hard life.
I was really expecting some funny,insightful and interesting comments on this post and instead had to slog through idiotic comments about grammar and spelling. What a waste!!
Jimmy should not be anyone’s lawyer but worry about his own show. Kid’s or no kid’s the Conan Tonight Show had a death rattle and poor ratings. Conan is nice guy but just not funny. I don’t think I will tune in to Jimmy anytime soon.
Wow, I was expecting some really interesting, funny, and clever comments about the article/video and all I see are a BUNCH OF IDIOTS arguing about grammar and spelling. What a waste.
Jimmy wasn’t being a lawyer, he was being a comedian. Conan’s ratings were due in part to Jay’s show tanking. Also he’d only been with the show 7 months. It took Jay six years to get to number one.
Are you kidding me? Jay is the unfunniest person on television. Well, second right behind Chelsea Handler. He appeals to the same kind of person who shops at Wal-Mart and thinks Sarah Palin would’ve been a gosh darn good president. And he obviously cares about no one but himself. Go away, Jay.
Jimmy was awesome! He killed Leno. It was unbelievable. I couldn’t believe he kept it up. Jimmy kept looking to the side so not sure if someone was there rooting him on or feeding him lines, but it was amazing television.
Oops. My bad. I’m a huge jerk. I can’t read.
Get over it already!
@Eyeball: it’s safe to say that your grammar is as great as your ego. I guess your lesson for today is: picking your battles (and your nose) wisely.
As for the Kimmel episode: yeah I think that crossed the line.
I don’t know how you can stand to read ANY of the comments posted if it bothers you so much. They are regularly filled with gross misspellings and grammatical errors. Lighten up!
Dude, it’s sort of your fault for looking like a douche. Just be nicer about it next time.
To get back to the article on here, yes Jimmy went over the line. Don’t know what Jay was thinking nor NBC.
I’m with Eyeball on this. The least we can expect from journalists is correct spelling. I regularly read Alan Sepinwall’s columns and blog but am getting more and more annoyed with his inability to differentiate between ‘then’ and ‘than’.
ooh…that’s some serious threat there. no wonder they fixed it. can’t afford to lose YOU as a reader.
The best comments here are the ones where people actually added another comment to the thread to say, “Enough comments about grammar already!” There’s got to be like two dozen of them.
Now THAT is irony.
Looks like the grammar police are acting stupidly.
Yeah, that goes for me two!
sheesh, dude take it easy.
I used two like Conan, but then he became to predictable. Jay Leno was never to funny, but what he’s doing too Conan exposes him for the passive-aggressive jerk he always was. Don’t get to worked up about this, however. Conan is getting 30 mil to get fired. That’s 28 mil more than most of us will make in our lifetime. NBC and Leno: those to deserve each other.
Ha ha.
Standing golf clap from a grammar nerd that wasted way 2 much time wading through the to/two/too comments.
The joke is on Leno. I can’t imagine him being very popular in the industry right now.
Jimmy took no prisoners and my opinion of him has improved 100%. If Jay doesn’t want to talk to people who are criticizing him, he’s gonna have a hard time getting any guests.
I agree, Jay sucks up to guests all the time with his fake laughter. This was probably the first true exchange he has had on any of his shows. Good for Kimmel, and his hilarious parody was classic down to the parody of annoying Kevin Eubanks by Cleto laughing loudly at EVERY joke
I never really watched Jimmy because our local station didn’t start carrying it until like a year ago or something like that – but I can definitely say I’m a HUGE fan now!!! I love this man!!!!
Jay sucks up by fake laughing? Have you watched Conan the last few nights? He over-laughs at almost anything Andy says or does. And whenever Conan’s audience isn’t laughing at huge decibels, Andy jumps in, cackling at a mediocre joke. Now, you may say that is Andy’s role as sidekick. I will say it is the role of ALL the hosts to make their GUESTS feel comfortable. I missed Jay, so missed Jimmy’s appearance – will have to see if I can youtube it or something. But, on a gut level, I’m pretty sure he went too far, because I thought he went too far on his own show the other night.
I agree Jay sucks with guests. He doesn’t listen to guests at all because any time a guest makes an interesting comment he replies with a completely different question instead of an actual follow-up question. It’s like he doesn’t even care what the guest wants to talk about or the viewing public wants to hear.
Jimmy is an idiot. And while kudos to him for being brave to zing the host, his jokes weren’t even funny (which isn’t unusual for him, he’s rarely funny). His jokes were uncreative and childish and proof that he’ll obviously never be the great host his predecessors are (Leno, Letterman, Conan, Carson, etc.)
Are you kidding? You obviousy are well versed in sarcasm. (that was me being sarcastic, if you don’t know what that word means I’ll wait while you look it up)
Jimmy Kimmel is hilarious and has much more in common with Conan Letterman and Carson than Jay Leno ever could.
Um Cory, ignoring your condescension, I love sarcasm so relax and I thoroughly get sarcasm. Jimmy is not what I call sarcastic or dry, but overt and “beat you over the head”. I find him thoroughly UNFUNNY. I agree that Leno does not rely on sarcasm like Letterman does, but if you think Kimmel is funny, maybe you should be looking up the meaning of that word in the dictionary instead.
Are you kidding? Leno got off easy after his tasteless jab at Conan’s ratings (which Jay’s failure of a show helped sink!). Kimmel and Conan’s generation of comedians haven’t forgotten how Leno knifed their hero Letterman – now Leno’s getting paid back in spades.
The fact that Letterman is anyone’s hero is pathetic. The guy isnt funny. I could care less about his drama w. Jay and NBC. And the fact that those with unresolved issues from that matter are trying to jump on Conan’s bandwagon makes the whole situation even more childish. Is Conan a victim here? Heck yeah. But do we need Letterman to use this as an opportunity to whine about himself AGAIN? No thank you.
You think Leno is funny and that Letterman isn’t? You MUST be a wino.
David Letterman is the godfather of televised irony. His is the sense of humor that advises almost everything you see on television.
Speaking of annoying improper usage…the phrase is “couldn’t care less.” Like I couldn’t care less about to, two, and too but the phrase “could care less” drives me nuts. I agree completely with you assessment of Letterman. Never found anything he said funny.
People who think Jay is funny and Dave, Jimmy and Conan aren’t, eat five nights a week at McDonald’s, drink their wine from a box, and think George Dubya Bush was our greatest president.
Stop drinking Mad Dog(MD20/20).
Letterman is not whining about his situation in any way. He is obviously just delighting in the comeuppance NBC and Leno are experiencing. If you watch his show he is clearly just reveling in the whole mess. Barely contained glee probably sums up his attitude the best. That’s a far cry from “whining”.
OOh, sorry, must have spelled “twit” wrong.
Is your name supposed to be ironic? “I agree completely with you assessment.”
If you were going for irony, you should have also spelled ‘grammar’ wrong. As far as the “I could care less” thing, it works both ways. “I couldn’t care less” it’s true, makes more literal sense. But “I could care less” also works, you could care less, but you don’t, because you don’t care enough. As far as Letterman, if you really think Leno is funnier, then you are nuts, and nothing you say should be taken seriously anyway. If it’s part of an ironic online character you’ve created, again, it would have been funnier if you had spelled grammar wrong.
Can’t believe I’m jumping on the stupid grammar bandwagon here, but “could care less” only “works” because people have continually said it incorrectly for “couldn’t care less.” And, perhaps Letterman isn’t exactly “whining” but if I have to hear about how he and Paul were “there” at NBC 17-18 years ago, I’m going to scream. Yah, I’m sure EVERYONE who had a hand in Letterman’s failure to get The Tonight Show is still at NBC, making the current decisions.
I like to say “I could care less” because it annoys people like you, lol. The frenzied posts getting worked up about it are a lot of fun (I know, I know, “a lot” is improper grammar too, hopefully that one bothered you too). I only wish I could see your face getting red and sputtering “it’s couldn’t, it’s couldn’t” to your cat.
Leno made a light joke, regardless of how many people repeat their fantasies, it is not his fault. If Conan had been a stinking hit in show, he wouldn’t be going anyway. But he wasn’t.
In the early to mid 90′s, Leno routinely got his a-s handed to him by Letterman. Leno didn’t take the lead for a few years, when CBS lost a bunch of affiliates. So it’s not unreasonable to think NBC would have given Conan time to grow. After all, in a few years it will be time for both Letterman and Leno to retire, and they would have been sitting pretty with a young, established host. Guess that will be another network now, but I guess the current exec pinheads will be retired then and it will be some other suit’s problem. Too bad NBC doesn’t have somebody looking out for the long term. Oh well, it’s not money out of my pocket, I’ll just watch Conan on Fox or ABC.
Leno beat Letterman for 15 years. 15 years. Yet all of you can only keep pointing out that for the first 2 years, or 18 months, Letterman won. Talk about living in the past.
Um, actually I was living in the present. I know that Leno consistently beat Letterman in the ratings for 15 years. My obvious point was that he didn’t do that right out of the gate, he was given time to find his audience. Conan is in the same situation, except that he’s much younger than either host now. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were at work and only skimmed what I wrote, and didn’t really need it broken down to you on such a kindergarten level.
Awww, aren’t you sweet. But I understood your point, just tired of hearing it repeated ad nauseum all over these blogs. The fact is, NBC was more than willing to give Conan more time to grow BACK the #1 audience he lost, but Conan wasn’t willing to move his timeslot or negotiate out of the public eye apparently.
fact – leno could have told nbc no 4 or 5 years ago
fact – Johnny Carson wanted letterman and back in the day he was funny and earned his seat
fact – slime jay took the seat without earning it
fact – Leno said he would not drum up drama and do what he did years ago – fact – that is what he has done!
fact – letterman is a hero to his industry and is not what he was back in the day – that is not the point
fact – jimmy and Conan are new blood and what leno did is sad and rude and good for Jimmy for telling it like it is
fact – conan AND ALL OF HIS KEY PEOPLE MOVED THEIR LIVES AND NOW ARE ALL OUT OF JOBS!!!! Leno is snak
– leno might go back to being on top – or hopefully that will not be a fact
what was done was wrong no matter whether you like leno or not the guy is a slime and it’s totally wrong what he is doing – carma might finally get him this time
Fact: You have no clue what the word “fact” means. Thanks for sharing your opinion and simplistic, uninformed, and incomplete re-write of history.
fact-it’s rude to use kids as an attack on a guy with an infertile wife (judging by your post, i’m guessing you’ll want to look that up)
fact-letterman was a hero. was. was. was. now he uses weak-ass insults to seem funny
fact-conan can afford to move from new york to california, a place where his key people could find other jobs easier
fact-nbc is actually doing most of this
fact-conan gave a huge farewell show and cried about leaving his show, only to go back to doing… his old show at an earlier time slot. wah.
fact-conan’s being a drama queen crying on his show, instead of having the balls to say no and fighting back
fact-jay got to number one, he earned something
fact-conan’s ratings have been dropping since before leno started at 10, conan earned that.
whether or not leno gets cancelled or a new time slot matters less to me than what hack they get on american idol to release a crap album and pretend they have a career, i’ve got things to watch at 10 and 11:30 and none of them are on nbc
I don’t know if Leno’s wife is infertile or not. But they could have easily adopted, but that might mean Jay couldn’t buy as many classic cars for his collection. Oh the humanity!
I am honestly amazed that people here now seem to be taking the position that childless couples (by choice or otherwise) can simply be told to go retire and get out of our faces? lol They told Leno to go, he tried to go and they wouldn’t let him. So, let’s see, the guy had the #1 in late night for 15+ years and they not only fire him, but then want him to NOT work anywhere else? And you all think he should just have said “ok, boss” or that he owed it to Conan to disappear? lol lol
God bless Jimmy! I was just saying to someone yesterday that Jay is probably surrounded w/sycophants so no one is telling him how incredibly self absorbed he is being. This is the first time that I ever regretted not watching his show; wish I could have seen this live, but that’s what the interweb is for.
I thought it was awesome!!! To watch someone say everything I’ve been thinking to Leno’s face, and in public. Since I won’t watch the Tonight Show after they boot Conan, I will now watch Jimmy Kimmel. I will TiVo him and watch every night!! He is great!
But the think is, he was rude – and so are you apparently. None of this is Lenos fault. Its the network, and of course the Kimmel and Conan aren’t very funny and thus don’t have very impressive ratings. Of course they have been paid with larger salaries than any of the readers here are likely to see in their entire lifetime.
Yo shadow step – what are smoking – THIS WAS JAY – NBC even came out and said it was up to him and HE WANTED IT BACK!! HE KNEW CONAN WOULD NOT TAKE THE 12.05!! I can’t believe there are so many people out there that see nothing wrong with what he is doing. Just wait for your boss did give you a promotion and then take away and basically forcing you out of a job -
“None of this is Leno’s fault?!” Jesus H. Christ, this is only the SECOND time he’s been complicit in stabbing a rival in the back to get the show he wants. Remember, he did this to Letterman years ago when Johnny Carson left the Tonight Show. Leno has proved himself to be completely Machiavellian when he wants what he wants. The idea that he stood by meekly while NBC did all this crap to Conan is completely disingenuous. He was in there turning the screws the whole time. He’s never gotten over the fact that no one gave a crap when he left the Tonight Show. And he refuses to go away.
Apparently, Leno stabbed Letterman in the back for simply daring to want the same job as Letterman? Or going against what Carson wanted? Was Carson the president of NBC and I missed it? Everyone keeps writing these highly personal accounts of history (he stabs them in the back!!!) when the bottom line is there are NBC execs and bosses who make these decisions.
Did you also think the insult about Leno having no kids was awsome considering he has no kids because his wife is infertile?
For the record infertile people can have children. It’s called adoption. Jay and his wife don’t have kids because they clearly do not WANT kids. That is their choice and it’s fine. Let’s not pretend that they are living some tragedy and that Kimmel’s mention of children was somehow below the belt. He was just stating a fact-he and Conan have families to support and Jay has cars.
i agree that it’s good that someone told leno upfront what a jerk he’s being for the entire fiasco. but watching it made me really uncomfortable, it was almost painful to watch.
conan got royally screwed. i still maintain that nbc is the main villain in this, not jay. to be fair to jay, he probably said yes to passing the torch to conan only because he was promised a new show. it can’t be easy to see the show you left at the top get slaughtered in the ratings now that you’ve passed it on.
that being said, i still wish leno would be the bigger man and give it up. he should have quit while he was ahead.
That was wonderful.
Does anyone remember [I believe it was 4 yrs ago] Jay Leno saying he was tired of THE TONIGHT SHOW & he wanted out by 2009, so “if Conan wants it, it’s yours, buddy”? I recall that [if not in those exact words, then near to it] so I feel bad for Conan & his family as they moved from NYC anticipating a step up, job change…and I recall Leno saying he wanted to retire by then because he was “tired” of the show, traveling for standup gigs, etc.? Jay does not have children but he has quite a few cars & motorcycles…to have him on at 10 every night is pointless & aggravating…I am glad his 10 pm show was cancelled because I think actors/directors/writers being paid is more productive for TV…I’m all for a good comedy or drama…bring them back!
Too far? He didn’t go far enough!
Absolutely not. Leno deserves to be outed as the true jerkoff that he is.
I really hate when men sound like catty women. So annoying. I don’t understand, does Jay want to move to Conan’s time slot or is that the Network wanting to make a move to boost ratings. If it’s the network, why is Jay the scapegoat and not standing up for himself? This is getting old.
Jay is under contract, Conan is under contract. NBC doesn’t want to have to pay out tons of money for breach of contract so they were trying to keep both. However, Conan saw that a move of the Tonight Show back a half hour would compromise the integrity of the Tonight Show brand and negatively affect both his show and Jimmy Falon’s show, so he’s stepping down. Jay doesn’t care if he sinks both of their shows, so long as he gets to go on later.
Yeah, right, because he’s so concerned over the artistic integrity of late night television. Get a grip, it’s all posturing for the sake of infighting over contractual obligations. The fight over Letterman vs. Leno for the Tonight Show turned into a book and a TV movie – they’re just hoping to avoid a similar spotlight here.
I agree with you completely! And lets not forget that Jay didn’t want to leave the Tonight Show to begin with. He was forced out so the network could keep Conan. And Conan is doing horribly in that time slot. I miss having Jay at 11:35 and Conan at 12:35. And Jimmy was just being a jerk.
If Jay didn’t want to leave the Tonight Show those many years ago, he should have said no. There was no way that NBC would have chosen Conan over Jay back then.
Ya jessie because Jay wasn’t doing horribly in his timeslot for like 3 years when nbc threatened to replace him with letterman. And like Jay didn’t do horribly in his 10 pm timeslot right after being the “late night king”
The fact is it was a new show and a new time, they should’ve let him develop it.
Uhm, actually, Jay DID want to leave the Tonight Show. Five years ago he announced he was stepping down and THAT IS WHY the network sign the contract guaranteeing Conan the gig in ’09. Then, when the time to step down came around, Leno acted like a little baby and said he didn’t want to go. But by then, it would have cost NBC too much money to break the contract they signed with Conan. So basically Jay Leno’s ego is responsible for this whole debacle. Not to mention Leno’s terrible and unfunny 10 pm show is largely to blame for the drop in ratings of NBC affiliates’ late local news AND the Tonight Show. Good work Jimmy Kimmel for calling out this self centered jerk
late night tv is all about the lead-in. leno always had strong lead-ins for his show with dramas like ER and L&O. (and let’s not forget that leno was losing to Letterman until Hugh Grant came on after his prostitution bust, and he was too scared to go on letterman cuz he knew letterman would rip him apart whereas leno would toss him softballs.) conan’s ratings were hurt cuz jay’s show sucked and killed conan’s audience, which is precisely what conan knew would happen.
Jay never should have been forced out of the Tonight show to begin with. I have nothing against Conan, I just enjoy Jay’s shows better. If you knew anything about the man you would know that he’s a good guy
Let’s get something straight here. Jay DID NOT want to leave The Tonight Show back in 2004. He was pushed out by NBC. Read this article by Bill Carter in the NYTimes from 9/11/09–”Pushed From Late Night, Leno is Set for Prime Time.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/12/arts/television/12leno.html?_r=1
Bill Carter knows this territory better than anyone else. BTW, Jimmy Kimmel’s comment about how he and Conan have families and all Jay has is cars was incredibly vicious and hypocritical. Conan is undoubtedly a good family man, but Jimmy Kimmel is split from the mother of his kids and I don’t think that the kids are living with him full time. How can he talk self-righteously about family when his own split. Say what you want about Jay, but he has stayed married to the same woman for decades and he is so proud of her. Just because they don’t have kids doesn’t mean they are somehow less worthy.
Chris and Eric, you guys need to get your facts right. Jay didn’t step down, his contract came up for renegotiation and NBC said “Jay you’re out, Conan is in”. Conan had been heavily hinting to NBC execs that he was unhappy in his 12:35 slot and would leave if things didn’t change. NBC, thinking that Leno was old and Conan appealed to a younger audience, gave in to Conan’s demands and pushed Jay out. The only reason NBC gave Jay the 10 o’clock show was because as it came closer to Conan hosting the show, they realized that Jay could go to another network and become the competition. Fearing that Jay would do this (and take his ratings and audience in the process), they gave him a show to keep him at NBC.
Jay did NOT want to leave the show, and NBC did NOT give Conan the job because the job needed to be filled. And yes, NBC did choose COnan over Jay back then.
You’re engaging in revisionist history. Jay DID want to leave The Tonight Show. Originally, he wanted to switch gears and go back to doing stand up (which he really enjoys, which really invigorates him creatively, and which he hasn’t done in a good long while), among other things. That’s when NBC offered TTS to Conan — after Jay announced that he would be stepping down/retiring. As the time for him to leave drew closer, he didn’t want to go. The Jay Leno show was NBC’s attempt to (a) save money and (b) keep a good relationship with Jay. I think there’s plenty of blame to go around in this entire situation, but pretending that Jay’s some innocent caught in the crossfire is inaccurate and untrue.
If you choose to believe NBC’s PR reps, then yes, you’re absolutely right. But I choose to believe industry rumblings and various journalists who are more concerned with the truth. I don’t think Jay is some innocent caught in the “crossfire”, but I also think he’s been wrongly appointed as a scapegoat.
This was mentioned someplace else, but it was a valid point. Keep in mind that Jay had ER, Law & Order and SVU as 10pm lead ins. What did Conan get? Jay Leno.
Bethann is the closest to correct here.
Also, the change in staff from NYC-based “Late Show” to LA-based “Tonight Show” hasn’t meshed with Conan’s sense of humor.
So many people expressing support for Jay are repeating that Jay didn’t want to retire when the fact is 5 years ago Jay thought he did want to retire. Jay changed his mind and thinks screwing Conan is okay. Jay is the bad guy.
I don’t think any of us writing on this blog can say for certainty that we KNOW Jay “wanted” to retire 5 years ago (or whenever the agreement for Conan to take over was signed off on). Perhaps he thought he would be ready to retire then. But anyone actually “ready” to retire, wouldn’t wait 5 years to do so. So, to my mind, Jay – as always the company man – let the company force him into making a retirement decision 5 years ahead of time, and then like a good soldier said all the right things. No one, perhaps even including Jay, expected that his ratings and popularity would still be going strong. NBC should have re-assessed the situation, gone to Conan and asked him to postpone the take-over for another few years, and left well enough alone. Perhaps they did try that, perhaps Conan said, “no.” We can’t know! But just because Leno may have played nice and said all the things NBC wanted him to say so people wouldn’t think he was being forced out, doesn’t change the fact that he was forced out. Does anyone’s boss in real life insist on a retirement decision 5 years in advance? Umm, no. Also, Jay as a human being is entitled to change his mind and not want to keep to a retirement decision made 5 years earlier. He then has the right to consider other jobs. People on these blogs seem to think he had an obligation (to whom? NBC? Conan?) to just disappear quietly into the sunset. Give me a break. It is not Jay’s fault that NBC made a bad decision 5 years ago. It is not Jay’s fault that NBC panicked at the thought of Jay’s fans & ratings moving to another network and so devised a really bad plan for a 10:00 show. It is not Jay’s fault that they came up with another bad plan to “fix” it. He is entitled to make the best deal for himself that he can – last year and now. Having said that, I think it is a mistake for NBC to move The Tonight Show to 12:05, and I am hoping that Jay might come to think so as well and withdraw his agreement for the “fix.” But, please already, let’s stop acting like somehow Jay is the guy in charge here.
I completely agree with Shel, and Doremifah, I’d like to know how you know that Bethann is the closest to correct?? Who agrees to retire 5 years before they are actually going to retire.
If people stopped thinking “humanely”, and stopped considering the “feelings” aspect of this, and just thought about the business side, it would become clear that this whole debacle is NBC’s fault for thinking Jay was too old and taking COnan’s threats seriously.
@Kendra “Who agrees to retire 5 years before they are actually going to retire.” Who agrees to work at one place for 5 years when they could have better offers during that time? People on tv; Conan agreed to stay at NBC because Leno agreed to leave the Tonight Show, and let Conan replace him.
“The Tonight Show” is considered an institution, ppl see it as a passing of the torch when a new host comes on. And, Leno himself has made allusions to this. He didn’t agree to ‘retire’ as in stop working completely, but it was implicit and explicit that he was passing the torch. As you say, forgetting about leno’s “feelings” about the matter, he agreed to leave the show. And, Conan had a multi-year deal to host.
On the business-side of things, the network is backing out of their contracts. And, Leno is capitalizing on it, which on the ‘humane’ side looks kinda sketchy.
Frankly, I don’t think this business decision is any better. Yes, Conan’s “Tonight Show” had lower ratings than Jay’s but I think they’re making a mistake in thinking it was Conan that was alienating viewers. I think the lack of a good lead in was the major factor, but also in a few years Leno will be too old and they’ll wish they had stuck with Conan just a bit longer.
While it’s true that Jay is not directly responsible for the debacle, he becomes responsible because of his willingness to go along with NBC’s stupid actions. All he had to do was say, “Keep me on at 10 or fire me, I’m not going to torpedo the very show I worked on for so long,” and he’d be a hero. Instead, so long as he keeps his paycheck, he doesn’t care who or what gets damaged in the process.
He did do that when agree to step down from his number 1 show for Conan. Conan unfortunately tanked.
EXACTLY! You put it perfectly. This is why Len looks so douchy, he doesn’t have the balls or the ethic to stand up to something thats wrong.
Well said!! Agree 100%.
You hit the nail on the head! Leno should just retire. It is time to move on.
Yes, I suppose Jay could have said that. However, he has a contract also. We still don’t know what Conan’s refusal will do to his contract. Each man has to decide for himself how, when or if, they want to appear in breach of contract.
Jay wants the time slot. He said in an interview back in November, as well as during a monologue on his own show. If NBC asked him to return to his original time slot, he would.
Indeed. If Leno had any integrity, he would have declined the offer and left alongside Conan. But his inactions and willingness to have others’ hurt make him an accomplice in this whole debacle.
This is part of the reason why I don’t feel Conan’s show got a fair shake. Can you imagine getting a job, and your predecessor never really went away, and stated that they still want your job? Jay should have just retired and went away, let Conan take over the Tonight Show, and we wouldn’t have to witness this debacle. Loved Jimmy on Leno!
Jay wants the time slot because he sees that Conan is destroying the Tonight Show with his juvenile antics. When Jay left the show a few months ago, it was because of the contract that Conan got from the NBC dummies in 2004 when his contract was almost up and it was time to negotiate. The dummies at NBC didn’t use their brains (nor did they ever watch Conan’s show or they would have realized what a poor choice they were making) and signed him up for the Tonight Show, and didn’t even think about the possibility that Leno wasn’t ready to go. But Leno really had little choice in the matter and it was only when the dummies at NBC realized that Conan couldn’t hold an audience over 3 years of age, that they decided to try to change things. Unfortunately, Conan continues to have his tantrums (you don’t see Leno out there acting like a baby the way Conan is) and NBC did right by telling Conan to hit the road. I wouldn’t put up with his nonsense either, if I were his employer. As I’ve said before, he should go on over to FOX with those other airheads, they’ll love him.
To Ryan: Has Conan left? Not on my TV. He is not some big hero. Right now, he is someone just whining alot. He wrote a really great, professional statement and took a stand, for which I applaud him. But since then, it is like he has bought the idea that because his studio audience gives him a standing O every night, he is the martyred savior of daytime. He hasn’t quit, he hasn’t left. He took a stand and is praying, desperately, that NBC will back off and he WON’T have to leave. Fine, that’s a plan. But he can stop acting like a pathetic baby in the meantime.
ooops, “savior of late night” ;>
Jay is the scapegoat because he’s powerful enough at NBC that if he didn’t WANT this for himself, all he would have to say is “nah, I’ll pass, the Tonight Show is Conan’s.” Sure, maybe the network can force people to do stuff, but FORCING Jay to take back the Tonight Show sounds like something that is PERFECTLY within his power to reject. If he had an ounce of integrity whatsoever.
I agree. If Jay had an ounce of integrity – and I have my doubts about that. If he did, he would have not said months ago that he would take his time slot back if offered. He did not have to answer the question, and certainly did not have to mention it in his monologue. He planted the sead back then. But that is how Jay works – behind the scenes undermining others.
This whole Leno-as-innocent is just a replay/rehash of 1992-3, when Jay tried to pretend that the whole choice of Carson’s successor was due to NBC execs. While Jay played good cop, his attack dog manager was behind the scenes chewing everyone to bits.
Good point. Also, if Jay hated losing his time slot so much I’m sure FOX would have given him a sweetheart deal for a show on their network. Jay has just been controlling everything at NBC for so long I think he just always assumed he could get his old gig back at any time he wanted it (and he obviously has).
Saying something in an interview for anyone to read is almost the exact opposite of “working behind the scenes.” Jay was forced out, he toed the company line for 5 years. I, for one, think he is entitled to say whatever he wants in an interview. For people who think Conan, Jimmy, Letterman are some almighty gods of comedy and late night, you sure do act like they need to be protected from Jay like they were little babies. Jay’s “attack dog manager” worked behind the scenes for him? Definition of “good manager.” As for Jay not going to FOX or anyone else, perhaps he felt some loyalty to NBC, despite them forcing him out, or their deal was the most lucrative. Again, Jay has the same right as anyone to go where the best deal is.
And I hate it when women sound stupid … like you.
how do I sound stupid?
your a douche
Jay?
Where the heck is Ken Tucker???? Who is this clownshoe??? Jimmy Kimmel was ON POINT last night, and it’s about time Jay got a taste of his own medicine!
Clownshoe. I love it. I’m stealing that.
Hahaha… me too Eyeball.
Haha! I am a clownshoe! I am a clownshoe!
i been waiting for ken tucker to weigh in too. where you at, ken?
If Jay didn’t want Jimmy’s feedback, he shouldn’t have invited him on his show. Kimmel was brilliant.
Jimmy said what everyone else is thinking, go play with your cars and let the funny be done by the funny guys!!! Way to go Jimmy, love your honesty.
Nope.
For good or ill, it was kinda the only interesting thing to happen on the show since… ever.
No, he didn’t go too far. Kimmel was on target and this made for surreal, yet excellent tv.
Too true; and I love how uncomfortable Jay was almost the entire time.
I’m pretty sure it was the first time i’ve ever laughed watching Jay’s Show
Then why do you watch ‘Jay’s Show’? You know, there is this thing called a remote control and you can change the channel.
I’m aware of this remote control device. It also allows me to channel surf. i came across a face that wasn’t jay’s and i was interested. occasionally it happens
I agree with JD (and I’m a different JD
). But I don’t watch Jay, I channelsurf during commercials (I’m a guy, it’s genetic), and we have honestly tried to give Jay a decent chance but have never come away from these snippets feeling like it was worth it: he’s not funny anymore, the show wasn’t original in any way, and that “Top Gear” ripoff celebrity car race segment: check out the original on BBC America and you’ll just shake your head. To sum up: this was, indeed, the funniest thing I’ve seen from Leno’s show, and I don’t watch it (except as noted above).
Bazinga! And I agree. Kimmel finally made Jay funny. Kimmel is mah hero!
You are a jerk! Jimmy went over the line and your english stinks.
Jay leno is such an idiot.The Govenator Why can’t Jay a complete tghuoht on Marijuana without jumping to another subject. Good job Jay, you must be stoned.