'Supernatural': Who believes in demons, but not the Big G?

luxury watch Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 09:53 PM EST

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Mary Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 02:17 PM EST

As many have said, Dean's a pragmatist. He's seen demons, ghosts, etc.: they're real. But even demons doubt Lucifer; I expect they doubt the existence of God. Why shouldn't Dean? He's had plenty of experience with evil and dispair and precious little with good and hope. Give him a break.

Meanwhile, our angry ghosts should be blaming the demons & evil that are actually responsible for their suffering instead of the hunters who were present at their deaths. Guess it must be part of the "witness ritual" & the fact that the demons aren't reachable.

C Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:14 PM EST

Dean is a realist, who only believes in what he has concrete proof on. He just happens to live in a VERY different world than your average scientist/atheist does. Since he has never seen proof of Angles/God/Heaven, he doesn't beleive it. And since he has seen ENDLESS proof of the darker side, he believes in it. It makes sense if you think about it.

Em Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 07:15 PM EST

It makes perfect sense that Dean doesn't believe. He's seen many good people die, including his own family, while nothing "good" has come by to help them. He's never experienced anything that didn't have a price tag attached - good things don't happen to Dean without them. He lives because of a faith healer? Well someone else died in his place. He lives after being tortured by a demon and on the verge of death? His father died in hs place. His mother's last words to him were that angels would watch over them? She died burning on a ceiling. It's very easy to accept that bad things happen, bad things exist and good people end up getting hurt. It's harder to believe those things happen while there is supposedly some all knowing God like in the bible who supposedly cares what happens. Even if he exists, well he apparently doesn't care all that much, so why should Dean have faith in him?

Natassa Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 03:28 AM EST

I'm mostly with Hilda. Dean's scepticism about God and the existence of good has everything to do with his life experience. He has always counted on himself and even said so 30 hours or so before he died "noone can get me out of this but me", remember? It will take more than Castiel to convince him otherwise but I think the "all mighty Kripke" has that figured out already.. The fact that Sammy believes will make the difference for Dean, they already set the grounds for that with Ep. 2 last scene. Dean seems to be terrified of the unknown but even so, Sam's point of view is all that matters for that guy. I love the way Kripke points out their bond innovatively every single time...Way to go!! As for the killing of innocents trapped in their possessed bodies it's always been an issue for the boys from day one, we saw it last in ep. 1 with Sam's "Damn" after his powers use in the bar. That's another example that their world is far from innocent and divine...

kelly Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 04:49 PM EST

I've been hoping and expecting for the appearance of angels - or some other form of opposite beings from demons. However - we learned in Sin City that, like humans with God, some demons believed in "Lucy", some didn't, but it was all about faith, not a physical presence of the devil.

I think seeing demons may equate to believing in their opposite, but believing in God and Lucifer is another matter altogether. We still haven't seen either one yet, just Castiel's story.

In Kripke I Trust.

Renate Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 01:09 PM EST

I was going to post comments but so many of my fellow fans made the exact same points I intended to make about Dean and his lack of faith. So I'm not gonna repeat everyone else. I've been hoping for this kind of set-up and apocalypse! Like Sam said, how can there be evil without good? Like I always say, can't have shadow without light. This show rocks!

teresita Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 01:00 PM EST

fighting and seeing evil, bad, everything int the closet that is bad, since he was a child. so yea, it is hard to believe in the Man upstairs.

Eileen Young Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM EST

It is my belief that this ANGEL is no angel from GOD. I believe he is an unknown entity.I belive he saved Dean from hell for his own personal use.I believe that the road thus far will lead us into a very deceptive path.

I believe in GOD.
I believe that 'SUPERNATURAL' is the greatest show.
I believe in ERIC KRIPKE

Hilda Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 09:51 AM EST

Ok so the show really hasn't pondered why Dean regards himself so lowly,but there is a reason.It has been hinted at that Papa Winchester favored Sam more and rode Dean pretty hard about protecting Sam. Dean not only had to be big brother,part time dad,teacher and protecter to Sam.Dean never really got to be Dean,he never got to find himself! He has had to sacrifice everything to the cause.
Dean has every reason to doubt the existance of God,like he said what kind of God would let this happen to innocent people.

I am loving the show,I have from season one. The boys her always awesome. I love this little twist with Castiel and I will love seeing him challenge Dean!

hermit Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 08:58 AM EST

I must disagree. There have been those possessed by demons that have survive. The demons from Jus in Belo that were excorcised via PA system for one, Sam, John. So yes, a host can survive an exorcism. As for Dean, he believes in what he sees. He's said this many times. He's never seen God, nor angels,nor any proof that they exist. But he has seen demons and evil. Why would he believe in something he has never seen vs something he's constantly fighting against?

Amy Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 08:08 AM EST

Dean explained in Houses of the Holy why he didn't believe in angels, God, etc. Nothing but bad things have happened to his family since his mom was killed by a demon, I can't blame the guy for lacking faith.

dair Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 01:36 AM EST

Sam and Dean haven't killed anyone by exorcisiong them unless the demon did something fatal to their body forst. They didn't push Meg out of the window, the daeva's did that because they were angry that she had been using them. Ronald got himself killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lilith killed Hendricksen. Anyone else they'ev killed they done so in self-defense or defense of each other.

Dean believes in demons because he has had actual face to face experience with them. The existence of demons does not prove the existence of God. If you get bitten by a rattlesnake, does that mean that there must be some 'anti-rattlesnake' in existence somewhere who could've saved you?

Rafa Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:50 PM EST

Well, I'm really enjoying this season so far. Learning that Lilith not only killed, but tortured those who survived the demon attack at the police station was creepy. And Meg’s story is so painful. Poor souls.

Linda Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:41 PM EST

Dean doesn't claim to not believe in gods. He and Sam killed two pagan gods in 'A Very Supernatural Christmas' and have faced off against the Trickster, another god, twice. What he is questioning is the belief in the Christian GOD of Revelations.

Ragna Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:06 PM EST

In the first episode of last season, when the Seven Deadly Sins posessed some people, weren't they able to save the people they drove the Sins out of (the ones Ruby didn't knife, I mean)? I could have sworn some of those people survived.

Hey Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:17 PM EST

How can you say that the new season of Supernatural is anything like Buffy Season 7? The season just started! Only 2 episodes have aired and your going to compare it to an entire season. "Conversations with Dead People" was nothing like "Are You There God? Its me, Dean Winchester"
If your going to compare any Buffy Season 7 episode to the most recent Supernatural episode, it should be "Lessons"
In Lessons, the basement of the new Sunnydale High is haunted by the ghosts of people that Buffy apparently wasn't able to save.

I just owned you.
Yeah.

Jason Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 09:45 PM EST

Has anyone noticed that this season of Supernatural has been extremely similar to Buffy Season 7? The whole battle with a great evil. On Buffy it was the First Evil. And as for even the second episode of Supernatural was strikingly similar to a season 7 episode of Buffy
"Conversations with Dead People. I enjoy Supernatural; just wish they could be a little more original.

Lizzie Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 08:39 PM EST

A possessed person only dies if the demon has done something to get them killed. If the possessed person hasn't been shot, stabbed or tossed out a window, they may well survive, just like Sam survived Meg's possession in 'Born Under a Bad Sign' and the little girl survived Lilith's possession in 'No Rest for the Wicked'. The boys even commented last season that demons were being rougher on their hosts than before, and killing more of them.

Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 06:40 PM EST

My only problem with this is in one of the episodes in Season 2, "Houses of the Holy", his last line was "It was God's will." like he believes there just might be a God. Other than that, I love this show to death and would murder anyone who doesn't and say that the God of the Supernatural appeared to me and told me to do it, and then I would plead insanity, end up in a mental hospital- oh, wait.

Tigershire Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 06:37 PM EST

I dunno, Dean has stated he doesn't believe in Lucifer either. He says something about "aren't those bedtime stories told to scare little demons??" or something to that effect.

And since he's experienced evil via demons but not good via angels (at least until this point) then I can see why he's having a hard time with this concept.

Not buying it Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 06:27 PM EST

I love this show, and I love Dean - a well written character given some awesome lines ("That creeps me out.") I can totally see him believing in evil - he has seen it since he was a young child - but not believing in God. Nothing good has occurred in his life, he has had no evidence or personal experience with God until now. It will be interesting to see how this new experience is incorporated into the Winchester universe at the season continues (if only TW and CW could work out their differences before next Thursday for my television viewing pleasure).

Kelex Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 06:18 PM EST

Dean has pointed out in "Houses of the Holy" that he doesn't believe in what he can't see and touch. Sam is the one who has been able to take things "on faith" as it were, and it wasn't until the impalement of the would-be rapist at the end of his episode that Dean even entertains the notion that there might be another power. It's revisited again in "Roadkill" when they don't know where Tricia Helfer's character's ghost is going to go; it's just a pretty light, and then she fades out. Dean's also addressed several times the lack of angelic documentation in the lore that they use for research, and while there have been lots of angelic texts written, as Bobby proved last night by plunking the stack of books down on the desk, there's been no physical tangible proof of angels, God, or anything else, as opposed to the documented and in-front-of-his-eyes proof of demons, demonic intervention, and the gates to Hell as well as Hell itself.

Jennifer Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 06:05 PM EST

If Dean doesn't believe in Heaven then where does he think his Dad's spirit went after he crawled out of hell?

Did this episode remind anyone of Flatliners?

Kalie Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 04:14 PM EST

It makes total sense that Dean would believe in Hell and the existence of demons w/o believing in God as well. He's seen first hand that Hell exists, but never before had real proof in God's existence or that there's a Heaven. Evil is something he deals with every day and demons took his family away from him. Of course he's low on faith. It's just another facet of his personality that shows how different he is from his brother. Sam prays every day and is quick to believe that Heaven exists, while Dean thinks it's all myth. Maybe this season will be all about him gaining some faith.

Alynda Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 04:11 PM EST

See, and I was under the impression that mere demonic possession for any length of time (and who knows how long that is?) so wrecked a person, physically and spiritually, that even if they could be saved, they wouldn't want to be. Of course, that being just a theory.

Heather Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 04:01 PM EST

The key with the host bodies lies in what the demon's done to them in the interim. The assumption with Meg is that the push out the window damaged her body horribly and so the body didn't survive the removal of the demon. Or, well, survive long. But other people who've been exorcised on the show as well didn't survive because of what the demon put them through. All it takes is the demon in the body getting shot. The human won't survive then after the demon is removed, whether the person shooting them was a hunter or not.

Vicky Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 03:39 PM EST

"It's an interesting point to ponder, but correct if I'm wrong (and I know you will), the answer's always been: YES! These innocent human host bodies are dead anyway, right?"

Can't the demons be removed and the person still alive??? When they removed the demon from Meg in the first season, wasn't she still alive, but since the guys pushed her out the window...well it did a lot of damage to her human body. Then she died a few minutes later. I think I'm right...right? Someone help me out here. As long as the body isn't beyond repair, they can still live a "normal" life after the demon is removed.

Snarf Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 03:21 PM EST

I got a friend of mine hooked on the show last week - but as she pointed out, you can't have the dark without the light. The show so far has tripped around the concept of God as the "absent landlord" same as it has the Devil. Be interesting to see where this is heading.

Annie Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 03:20 PM EST

Dean's mistake is assuming that this "God" is benevolent, or at all interested in humans. Take those assumptions out of the equation and the existence of whatever they're calling God makes perfect sense by the show-universe's rules.