'Top Model'-'CSI' mashup sparks outrage

mandi Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 03:23 PM EST

I will say that yes, there are a thousand more important instances of abuse against women that are a thousand time more damaging. But the point remains: imagery that equates the beaten bodies of women with glamour and beauty and appeal is *deeply* harmful. And Ossorio's quote didn't say violence against women *as practiced by men* - she said violence against women. Models killing models is still violence against women. Finally, while this may not increase violence against women, the point remains that a photo shoot like this makes the violence more palatable, less horrific, and thus less dealt with.

Stacey Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 07:34 PM EST

While I agree with the comments that men who commit violence against women will do so regardless of photos like this, I am disturbed at the insensitivity they show to victims of violence. Sure, the intent may have been "harmless", but I see nothing in the photos themselves that suggest the supposed story behind them. All I see are women (obviously dressed and posed in very provocative ways) who have been bruised, battered, and bloodied. If I had been a victim of violence, be it at the hands of a man or a woman, I would be extremely offended that someone would think that image could be sexy and fashionable.

t3hdow Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 04:16 PM EST

I wrote that last post more to clarify my base opinion to Lucinda instead of discrediting your opinion as my own. You don't have to apologize.

betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 03:57 PM EST

Sorry t3hdow - I meant to credit you when I remarked about the tv crime shows since I was really reacting to your point. We're on the same wavelength:)

Fatima Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 03:54 PM EST

Please, the only outrage on Wednesday's show was the way too early booting of Felicia.

t3hdow Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 03:39 PM EST

Well betsy, that's what I kinda implied. The most striking example was the post-Superbowl episode of Criminal Minds I happened to see (in mostly small, random bits). I just remember it being about some religious psycho tying up some hot, buxom-y blonde for a snuff video on the internet (he wanted to punish her for committing adultery). She ended up getting mutilated by cannabilistic dogs.

I'm just saying it's a little silly to claim how passive we are about mysogynistic assaults or domestic violence cases with ANTM's photo shoot when we have stuff like this airing every week.

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 02:27 PM EST

Oops, I meant "thank you". Stupid fat fingers...

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 02:25 PM EST

Eh, I'm a dork.

And when I say that I'm a dork, it's not like when Drew Barrymore, Jennifer Love Hewitt, or these other attractive celebrities say it in some lame attempt to seem genuine and whatnot.

I mean like I am a bonafide, dyed-in-wool, watch-too-much-television DORK!!!

But that you for the kind words...unless there is some sarcasm there that I didn't pick up on. ;)

Naomi Campbell Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 02:19 PM EST

I just wanted to go on record and say that I oppose model on model violence. I abhor all violence in general.

Hey, did anyone happen to find a missing cell phone?

betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 02:17 PM EST

I mostly agree with your post, Lucinda, although I think CSI, Criminal Minds etc. have helped turn murder into sexy entertainment too.

And Royale with Cheese (aka "for Betsy") - you're pretty cool!

Z Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 02:11 PM EST

Violence against women is not what the photo shoot was about. It was an edgy shoot that pretended the murders were committed by the other models. It's not as if any of them were raped and then murdered. How common is dying from being given poison or getting your organs removed anyway.

Lucinda Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 02:04 PM EST

I didn't mean to imply that watching a dopey modeling show on TV will directly lead someone to commit mass murder, but I think as a society we need to be a little less accepting of violent images everywhere we look. I think we're all in agreement that those who commit such dispicable acts already have something very seriously wrong with them, but when you're surrounded by violent images against women on TV, online, in books, in movies, in ads, on billboards, and in magazines, that is bound to affect an already sick brain. My problem with this ANTM challenge is that the violent images were intended to be sexy and attractive. On a show like CSI, there is a team tracking down the killer, therefore conveying the message to impressionable minds that murder is wrong. These photos seem to convey the message that murder is good, because look how hot you're gonna look when someone kills you and leaves you half-naked in an alley.

t3hdow Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:47 PM EST

To lucinda

Mysogynistic-fueled killings as sado porn for future murderers? I highly doubt an ANTM shoot could trigger that kind of behavior, especially when:

1) there are so many other sources to encourage this behavior (i.e. the average ANTM viewer probably doesn't delve into such behavior)

2) you have to be pretty screwed up to begin with to do stuff like this for sadistic pleasure than simply watching women getting brutally murdered on TV; otherwise, that's like blaming Columbine on video gamers for playing first person shooters, which is something I've had to argue against for years. Real violence is a lot different than the simulated stuff.

Eli Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:39 PM EST

I just thought it was wrong, so wrong, that that Ninja guy taught them how to move, and then they were told to pose very still... I can't wait till the cover girl commercials though.

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:31 PM EST

Well, in all fairness Kristi, I'm not giving much credit to (or having much faith in) the general population these days.

Granted, do I think that every person that sees those pictures is going to pick up a knife and start raping 11 year old girls? No.

But I think we can all agree that society has gotten pretty jacked up overall - whether that's parents fault, the media's fault, or whatever.

To Lucinda Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:30 PM EST

I find your comment completely laughable.

Kristi Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:19 PM EST

OH pahlease! People really need to just take a chill pill and give their fellow human beings and women especially a little more credit - women do have brains believe it or not! If there is a tv show that tells women to jump off a bridge are we all gona do it? I think not!

Lucinda Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:19 PM EST

To t3hdow:

I think the point that some of us are trying to make is that passing off disgusting photo shoots as sexy entertainment is what LEADS to disgusting incidents like the Amish shootings.

cher Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:19 PM EST

Reminds me of these photos, which are actually pretty cool.

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/galleries/drop_dead_gorgeous/01ddg.php

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:18 PM EST

Amen to t3hdow's comments re: the Amish school killings. Priorities, anyone?

t3hdow Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:13 PM EST

Can't say I was disturbed with the shoot. ANTM's done worse.

It's not that I don't agree with Ms. Ossario, but she should choose better examples than an ANTM shoot...like I don't know...half the current serialized dramas on TV, especially Criminal Minds and Law and Order: SVU. Hell, let's move away from media in general.

More importantly, what about the Amish shooting in Colorado in 2006? Few sources actually emphasize the mysogynistic actions of the killers - they separated the victims by sex and murdered/tortured/molested the girlsings - and focused more on the fact that it was in an Amish based community.

Now please tell me why that gets less attention than some cheeseball ANTM shoot.

to betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:12 PM EST

No, no. These are all fair points.

The hardcore porn comment you made is spot on. It does seem like alot of pop culture is changing/adjusting based on mainstream acceptance of hardcore porn. 20 years ago, Traci Lords was a complete pariah, now you have idiots naming their children Jenna. Don't they realize how that's going to turn out?

I've been kinda down on the fashion industry my whole life in general - and heroin chic in particular back in the grunge era.

I guess I've always been one of those people that feel like parents need to take greater accountability for their children, what they pick up on, and how they process it.

I mean, some people are just wired wrong - it's going to happen once in awhile. But how many girls are strippers as a direct result of crappy parenting?

And, hey, I saw "The Shining" at age 10. It didn't make me want to hack anyone up - just made me not want to meet Jack Nicholson. ;)

Lucinda Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:08 PM EST

Slezak--I think you're missing the point. Slasher pics typically feature hot young babes (both male and female) running around for the audience to enjoy looking at while the characters are still ALIVE. However, the audience isn't expected to look at the tortured, murdered corpses of these hot young babes and think, "Wow, she looks even sexier now that she's bruised, cut up, raped, and covered in her own blood. I wonder where I can get that dress?" Dead bodies on CSI and L&O aren't intended to turn on the audience; these photos on ANTM are. They are intended to be sexy, cutting edge, and fashionable. They are intended to make young male viewers think nasty thoughts about these young female models. These photos are sick, and can leave a dangerous impression on young viewers, who make up most of CW's audience and are being taught to believe that beautiful young women in their underwear look even sexier when they are brutally murdered.

Hey Betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 01:03 PM EST

Women aren't the only ones treated as objects in todays world. Many women objectify men just as much, if not more, as men objectify women. It is the nature of humanity.

betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:54 PM EST

to "to betsy" -- No but the perpetrators might have been watching the hardcore porn that the fashion magazines and fashion shows are apparently now trying to emulate as glamorous similar to the "heroin-sheik" movement in fashion a few years back. You don't think that has an affect on young women? As the victims themselves (who ARE likely to be thumbing through those magazines) downplay the violence against them as wrong and so are less likely to leave before it gets deadly.

And I believe it just makes all of us outrage a little less the more we see this stuff passed off as entertainment and don't say anything.

for betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:42 PM EST

I am responsible for probably 95 percent of the junior high-esque comments on this post, betsy. Including the ever-tasteless OJ Simpson comment.

I agree with your stance on violence against women. I just really think there is no deeper meaning in fashion.

I'm guessing that the majority of people that have snatched little girls off of the street, hit their wives, or date raped some poor girl at the frat party weren't thumbing through the fashion ads prior to committing those heinous acts.

betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:36 PM EST

Who is "for Betsy"? I have no problem making fun of models when they deserve it. I just think it is deplorable for anyone to defend this "death is beautiful" trend in fashion, because it endorses how women are routinely treated as objects rather than human beings in our world and more importantly that death is "no big thing." Look at how many women & children are getting killed in Iraq for God's sake! Not to mention all the US women soldiers getting raped.

Lighten up? I think we all need to get a little deeper sometimes and see the connections.

furry_tom Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:30 PM EST

Why are people so down on the term Feminism? It just means that you believe that the sexes should be treated equally. It's ironic that you can ask someone whether they believe that women should be treated as equals and they'll say yes, but if you ask them if they're Feminists they'll vehemently deny it.

for betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:27 PM EST

For your information, betsy, I have had to help many women in this situation - from my Mother to many friends. And yet here I am making jokes...why?

Because you are talking about MODELS. This is the group of people the least inclined to do any good for anyone in humanity like...EVER!!!

The jokes here are not about women getting abused or murdered. The jokes here - subtle and not-so-subtle - are intended to make fun of such a phoney industry taking themselves so seriously.

Lighten up, betsy. Get over yourself, jack*ss!

betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:23 PM EST

Oh, I forgot to say that sadly I did see these kinds of photos in a high fashion magazine a couple of years ago (although I don't think it was clear if the models were specifically murdered or just dead). I was disgusted by that too but figured not that many people would see them. Top Model sadly reaches a far wider audience.

betsy Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:19 PM EST

Finally this outrage is getting attention. But then this weak commentary! Michael or (any of the idiots who have commented here), have you ever helped a friend who was beat up by her supposed boyfriend and then is hiding out in fear of her life? Well I have. Maybe the reason you take this so lightly is because you've never had that happen to anybody you know (I hope it's not because you're a man Michael). It's not about who killed them - you don't see that in these images. It's the final result. Murder should never be made to look beautiful.

p.s. I'm not a "feminist"

peachmahoney Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:39 AM EST

Fashionistas with a pedigree will know that these photos were a total rip-off of Helmut Newton. Watch The Eyes of Laura Mars and you'll know what I mean. Murder photo shoots are old hat and I wouldn't expect anything less from the tired, unoriginal mind of "Mr." Jay.
Now Twiggy's outfit and Tyra's headband were pretty offensive!

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:34 AM EST

Because, in some childish way, it's so much fun to see you people get all riled up at my sophomoric comments...fatty fatty!

Orenthal J. Simpson Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:32 AM EST

What do you mean? I don't find the theme "dead women as beautiful" very offensive at all.

Jenn Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:26 AM EST

Yeah, the shoot was pretty tasteless. But, look at the first picture Slezak links up to...the girl has no body! That's pretty creepy.

melissa Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:25 AM EST

Maybe Dolce and Gabanna would like to use these photos for a future ad campaign?

Nicole Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:46 AM EST

I have to agree that they were pretty tasteless. I consider myself a feminist but I am pretty hard to offend and I found these offensive. I don't think that any of the photos taken so far this season or last season are "high fashion". I have never seen any pictures like this in Vogue or Bazaar. And to RWC-if there are 10,000 more important things going on right now why are you posting on this board?

Jael Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:42 AM EST

I get upset about violence toward women quite a bit, but that anger is usually directed at all the dramas with helpless women in peril. Was the shoot morbid? Yes. It wasn't a good photo shoot in that the gore distracted from the clothes, and that's what the models are supposed to be showing. However, this is not something to get offended over.

Amber Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:35 AM EST

I personally thought they went too far--they were hard to even look at. My least favorite shoot of ANTM by far.

Lene Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:32 AM EST

Yes, I find them offensive. The origin of the violence is less important to me - it's "dead woman as beautiful" that makes me nauseous.

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:25 AM EST

Maybe they went too far by creating such an idiotic show to begin with...

CW Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:23 AM EST

I am a huge Top Model fan and I do think they went too far with this one.

Stephanie Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:52 AM EST

Had the shoot been about violence towards women at the hands of a man, then sure. I can see how some people would be offended. But I think, in a sense, this shoot was supposed to have a bit of dry humor behind it given the "model on model" theme. It's like petty catfights to the extreme.

Royale with Cheese Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:51 AM EST

Really? Are you kidding? I can think of about 10,000 other things happening AT THIS VERY MOMENT that are more important.

I agree with Michael.

Jason Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:49 AM EST

those pictures are soooo The Eyes Of Laura Mars. Hot!

Gretchen Weiners Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:46 AM EST

Lighten up America! It's TV for eff's sake! Now, if Tyra strangled them all with her heinous weaves (seriously, they have been budget this cycle) for not being fierce enough, we may have an issue on our hands.

lynny Mon, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:46 AM EST

I think the difference between the "top actress" idea and this is that they are trying to make the violence sexy and glamorous. It is almost festishizing it. I am pretty hard to offend, but these are pretty tasteless.