Madonna's crucifixion act won't 'Live to Tell' on NBC

Juju Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 08:07 AM EST

Have you heard? Ali showed up at Madonna's front door and got invited in. He was thrown out within three seconds. As he walked into the family room, he left a long trail of brown soup which was dripping from his overcoat. Madonna had to send for a cleanup crew and will have to take her children to the Waldorf for a week. Quel Domage!

Jason Bonkers Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 07:29 AM EST

Ali: I know you meant to sound mentally regressed, but I just would bit chop my head off. Give yourself a break from your patients. Check into the hospital and become a guest for a year. Get the latest treatment in brain flushing; perhaps your mind will come back in five years. Here is a balloon of smelling salts for you: Feeewwwww...

Jason Bonkers Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 07:31 PM EST

At least you can admit you stink. And if someone throws rotten vegetables at me, I will wash it off, but you will get boulders aimed straight at your inflated head.

ali.. Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 07:58 AM EST

PS:
Yeah, ok.. i`ll go wash my stinky body if you go chop your own head off & stick it on a pole so wee can all pelt it with rotten veg?
Even thats a fate too good for the likes of you!

Jason Bonkers Fri, Mar 9, 2007 at 04:38 PM EST

Ali you must care or you would not have taken the time out of your lack-luster day to answer. Go wash your stink body.

ali... Fri, Mar 9, 2007 at 02:29 PM EST

Jason Bonkers:
Really? Why? Am dying to know what you comments are based on?

Only kidding... you must be under the delusion that i (or anyone else really) gives a haggis!

Jason Bonkers Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 02:26 PM EST

What's up Alex? I like your little reference to the hook. Juju needs medical attention, but I think you need it more.

Juju Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 09:43 PM EST

Alex has a problem: He thinks I care. Please give your mushy fingers a rest. You should be the client. Didn't your mama ever teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say you always look like a moron to your demented boyfriend? Oh I forgot, your mother was sold to the highest bidder.

Alex Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 07:33 AM EST

Juju:
I think you`ll find the correct phrase is "clients". Not v PC are you?
Would you like me to make a referral to your local psychiatrist.. a little therapy goes a long long way!

I`m also disappointed that i missed it when you were on a hook!!!!

Jason Bonkers Fri, Feb 9, 2007 at 09:49 AM EST

Yes Anne, I'm off the hook!

anne Fri, Feb 9, 2007 at 07:26 AM EST

Jason: are you Bonkers? lol

Jason Bonkers Thu, Jan 4, 2007 at 10:06 AM EST

Why would viewers need to be subjected to her kind? I am glad they did not show everything "Mrs. Bonehead" had to offer. All who like to dive in the pool of swamp thing go ahead, but you should have to pay in person. I will be glad when she finally realizes she is a terrible singer who should have faded away a long time ago.

Juju Wed, Jan 3, 2007 at 11:16 AM EST

Ali go do what Madge said. Go take your Fritzy home. Of course you do not see anything wrong with her stupid ways, keep on loving her, the two of you deserve each other. Go clean up after your patients.

Ali-bali-b Mon, Jan 1, 2007 at 05:41 AM EST

Really? What shock tactics would that be?
Oh thats right, she did the SEX book 15yrs ago!

If your referring to `the Crucifiction`... big wow, that wasnt shocking, unless your a bible-worshipping bore!!!

Juju Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 01:04 PM EST

Iva Joy: Madonna is famous more so for her shock effects, and not talent. One person's junk is another's treasure.

Iva Joy Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 04:11 AM EST

Madonna's "Live to Tell" portion has a message to tell the world. We should go on and help the less fortunate instead of trashing someone who has been helping others in her own special way. What seems to be unfathomable is that in such silly blogs like this people take the time and effort to spread hatred against the world's most famous woman.

Juniper Mon, Dec 4, 2006 at 09:24 AM EST

Someone should do her the honors and use real three inch screws, especially on her tongue.

Terri Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 09:18 AM EST

It is laughable that someone would cite what her concerts have grossed. Porn is even more profitable, but it is still trash!

fpittman Thu, Nov 23, 2006 at 06:10 AM EST

Excellent concert. The visuals, dancing, and the music was top notch. Far better tan any of the other "POP" artists around today. The best song was "Let it will be". The song was updated for the tour which appears in it's original mix on her latest album. I've seen many comments on the internet about Madonna being a "fading star". Perhaps she's out of touch with the some, but selling 8 million copies of Confessions, which debuted at #1 on the album charts in 28 countries and pushed her past the 200 million album sales mark. And she has set the record for the most number 1 dance singles at 36 with "hung up" since then she has added 2 more to that list with "Sorry" and "Jump". Sorry which did poorly in America is the top selling single all over Europe.....So Madonna may be a "has been" for those just looking to trash her, but she's doing just fine. Oh...one more tid bit. She set two more records with this concert. 1. Most people to attend a tour (over 1 million people). 2. Record busting $130 million in box-office receipts. And she was the highest paid female music artist last year earning over $26 million. HAS BEEN....yeah, right! keep on laughing to the bank madonna.

brenda Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 10:37 PM EST

I am trying to watch this special and She sucks! I used to like her but she really stinks now. I do like what she is doing for Africa but as an Artist now..Uhh..No!

Millie Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 12:02 AM EST

Good!!! She reaks of crapola.

Nando Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 11:30 PM EST

Mario, get a grip girl!!

Nando Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 10:52 PM EST

Let the stink show continue!!! She is a wasted woman that just refuses to get a grip, just like Indiana/Mario.

Indianafan Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 06:35 PM EST

Wow. The hatred continues. Well I can't wait for the broadcast of the "Confessions" tour.

Ali-bali-b Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 01:53 PM EST

I got side-tracked there!

I originally wanted to post that Confessions on over here on Nov 26th. There is no back-lash, no controversy & no religious threats!

Its just a concert. Maybe we`re just more "chilled" about these topics over here? Thank-God!

(sorry, was that blasphemous? Dont care!!!!!)

Ali-bali-b Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 01:47 PM EST

"...the worst person in the world..."

What a sheltered life you must lead. Do you not have a television, read a newspaper or educated yourself with any current affairs or even have a faintest grasp of current affairs?

I`m not going to go into a mad rant, i believe everyone should have a personal opinion. You either like her or dislike her (and i dont care which)... but "the worst person"???

I`d be interested to know your thoughts on the murderers, rapists, child molesters, suicide bombers, Dictators... yeah, they`re much more nicer than Madonna!

C`mon mate, get a grip of reality & gain some perspective eh?

fadumo Sun, Nov 12, 2006 at 04:42 PM EST

she is the worest person in the world she's full of****
she's no longer star.Me as a muslim i have every thing against her and don't you people forget about her,when she critisised the christian image and many ugly things.

Nando Sat, Nov 11, 2006 at 02:21 PM EST

Sarah:

Silly
Atrocious
Raggedy mouth
Accumulated sludge
Heroin looking mug

dan cullinane Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 08:19 PM EST

no aron, just a fag...
obsessed with madonna? nah...
amused by the posters? hell to the yes...

aron Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 07:27 PM EST

Dan: you are so obssessed over Madonna! Lol I love it!
You are a fag hag aren't you? :-)

dan cullinane Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 06:46 PM EST

nick, nick, nick...
gay men and the fat women who love them worship madonna and she can do no wrong in their eyes...its just the way it is bud...their ability to reason is as damaged as their taste in music...let it go...let it go...

Nick Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 02:33 PM EST

And, oh, btw, why did you label me a part of the religious right?

Nick Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 02:32 PM EST

Chris...

What question of his did I not answer?

Chris Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 01:59 PM EST

Dude, the only hypocrite here is YOU. That other guy who you kept debating the other day proved what a hypocrite with double standards you are. You never answered his question and if I had to believe someone had a better grasp of what it means to be a Christian, it would be him and not you. For all your huffing and puffing, whining and mindless rhetoric you only show the level of hypocrisy there is within the religious right in the US and other Christians who think they are morally superior to others when their actions speak more than their mindless words.

I'm glad that dude proved what a slimy human being you are.

Nick Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 01:29 PM EST

Well, because it was offensive to a sizeable number of Christians (from both the left and the right), their voices joined together and petitioned NBC... and NBC listened. If we left it and chilled, you wouldn't understand why it would be offensive to an entire segment of the population, and thus the conversation was beneficial that way.

Just because you weren't offended doesn't grant you the right to say "chill" to those who were. You oughta go thru sensitivity training.

sarah Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 12:33 PM EST

So what are you guys gonna do about it? Confront her? Lol. If it's offensive to you leave it be and chill. And Nando, go listen to some Mooriah.

Nando Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 08:31 AM EST

Sarah:
Everyone has a right to their opinion, and that includes Nick. You should not care so much about someone who would not let you in the front door unless there is something in it for her.
Madonna is offensive, stupid, an old hooker of Hollywood, and now she is a so-called "Do-Gooder," Yeah right! What a wonderful example and role model she is for her children.
Looking at her makes me wonder why Anna Nicole Smith's son was on drugs.

Nick Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 07:51 AM EST

If people make the claim that what she has done was not intended to be offensive, then she should make her case. If she doesn't, she is an anti-Christian bigot (at worst), or a stupid person at best. If you can't prove that, then you have no reason to share anything on the board. If Mel Gibson's apology, after his drunken antics, does not get him off the hook, then neither should Madonna's "explanation", after her sober/carefully choreographed antics should let her slide by.

To say otherwise makes you a hypocrite.

sarah Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 06:14 AM EST

Nobody has to "prove" anything to anyone, especially not a world famous artist like Madonna. She has done whatever she's wanted to for the last 25 years and will continue to do so (and who better than her). Leave it alone already.

aron Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 06:10 AM EST

Nick: Get a life and go talk to people who care...seriously.

Nando Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 11:55 PM EST

This is a joke! No one hates Madonna. Madonna is just a comedy act-a bad one. People have a right to say what they feel and think.

Nick Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 09:13 PM EST

Madonna has clearly shown herself to be the "hater" in this situation. She has shown herself to be an anti-Christian bigot. If you can prove to me otherwise, please do so. But stop letting your own celebrity worship get in the way of seeing her prejudices and shock tactics for what they are.

Indianafan Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:55 PM EST

Madonna does not need to be controversial to promote herself. The haters are the ones promoting her.

Please stop hating on Madonna. She should be applauded for her causes. With her nearing a 25 year old career span, people should be happy that she is still going strong.

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 07:55 PM EST

Devin...

To be quite honest, I had never heard those comments from such people before. Since some of them are from so long ago, one must wonder... (1) the proper context for such comments, (2) if those people still hold the same opinions today, and (3) if it is worthwhile to drudge up comments from over ten years ago just to ignore the more immmediate matter at hand.

Remember, there were many Christians who read John Lennon's statement that the Beatles were bigger than Christ; in that context, it was certainly shocking, and considered blasphemous... until you actually caught the comment in context (courtesy of the Anthology DVD series): Lennon wasn't boasting, he was _exasperated_ at the constant adulation and harrassment he and his band were going thru... I mean, don't these kids have church to attend? Seeing those comments in the proper context, with the proper intonation and glazed look in his eyes, one must wonder how many other times somebody takes something out of context.

You must trust me, that in my circles such names like Randall Terry and Pat Robertson do not come up. At. All. You telling me I should preach against such hatred implies I should come up with a cure for a disease that does not exist. And yes, I talk about the religious right in my area.

That I keep reiterating that there are other, more pertinent, more stressful issues at hand, those, I assure you, I tackle. Among them, like it or not, is Madonna. There are others that EW has covered throughout the last year on popwatch, and there are other sites, some entertainment, some not.

Nobody has the strength nor the knowledge to counter every single potential blasphemy that comes down the pike. One does what one can. One grows where he is planted.

I do not need to carry the burdens that you do. Since this is a big concern for you, you must continue your crusade. As for roping me into your crusade, all I ask is that you... chill. Really. Just chill. I've already demonstrated that the hatemongers have been losing cred amongst members of the religious right (at least in my immediate area). Do I really need to stress the obvious, when there are much more important issues at hand, (in my immediate area)?

BTW, Dan C., thanks for the encouraging comments.

Juju Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 07:26 PM EST

Madonna is just a silly bimbo! If she did not stir the pot, her music would be in the toilet. Her voice is atrocious-and that is a compliment. She needs to go home to her daughter.

dan cullinane Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 04:32 PM EST

nick and devlin -- i've actually learned a lot from your back and forth and encourage you to continue it...i think for the most part you've been respectful of one another and haven't flamed out as much as i've seen elsewhere...your discussion is marked by intelligence and i think an honest desire for illumination on both sides. i've never visited a page that had anything to do with madonna this many times in my life...kudos. you're both twice...no, make that fourteen times as interesting as madonna, and i keep checking back for updates.

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 04:23 PM EST

Nick,

Do you see how us going back and forth has hijacked this thread? I liken it to how some "Christians" have hijacked Christianity so that only their opinions are heard. Perhaps not the best analogy but a very fitting one considering the topic and our arguments within.

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 03:58 PM EST

Nick,

When did I express any "venom" against you? This goes back to my original question, what are you doing about those who use Christianity and Christ's name to spread hatred and bigotry? Since you say that many in the religious right do not agree with the statements of the people I quoted, my question then is: Are you voicing your opinions and attacking them with the same fury with which you attack Madonna and her use of the cross? It is still the same question, one you have not answered but instead avoid by engaging in a completely different rant.

Since there are many within the religious right who don't agree with the comments of the people I quoted and I'm sure many others, just as so many within the Christian religion who don't agree with Madonna's use of the cross, are you also speaking up for them when it comes to religious rights who use Christianity erroneously? Since you know so many within the religious right who don't share those views, don't you think they deserve as much a voice defending them against those I quoted just as you feel Christians deserve a voice against what Madonna has chosen to do?

It's really a very simple question but one you have refused to answer, regardless of how many ways and how many times I pose that question to you. At one point, you mentioned your charity but it wasn't that I asked about, then you asked me why I consider the religious right to be so flawed, I answered you but that wasn't enough, or rather the answers you wanted. What more do you want so that you may answer the very question I posed to you from the very beginning?

You seem to think that I have singled you out, or attacking you but instead you fail to see the double standard that you stance against Madonna but not those within the religious right presents to those of us who DON'T know you personally.

I'm simply some random guy on the internet trying to understand why you would defend Christianity and all it stands for from one woman but not from others who have done far worse, plain and simple. Where is the venom in that? Inquiring is venomous?

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 03:29 PM EST

Like I wrote earlier, you quote your disagreements with the "religious right" without knowing that there are people who associate themselves as part of the religious right, who agree with you.

Like I wrote earlier, you should familiarize yourself with these movements within the religious right. Such as "Crunchy Cons", "Next Wave Faithful", and "Post-modern worship."

Like I wrote earlier, the religious right is not what you make it out to be. It is far more complex than you say.

It is a whole lot easier to make it issue-oriented, rather than label an entire group with a venom-filled name if that person does not agree with you.

I am not an Evangelical Christian. I do not live in a red-state. I happen to agree with you on immigration and nuclear weapons. But I also know all about many Evangelical Christians who happily associate themselves with the religious right, but do not share the opinions of the folks you posted.

Do not take this to mean that I am taking your comments out of context. No. Instead, I am proving to you that, to be tolerant, means that you stop the labelling. Because the venom you spilled on this board is very explosive, especially against me, whom you assumed to be a part of the religious right.

If all this is happening, then you can be assured that no hijacking of Christianity is taking place. You were overreacting throughout this whole thread.

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 03:12 PM EST

Nick,

There's a difference between becoming "Intolerant" which you have labeled me to be (didn't you acuse me of labeling you earlier?) and pointing out a specific flaw, or intolerance from a particular group.

Intolerance of the religious right would mean that I would not want them to exist at all, this is not the case. I don't agree with them and they don't speak for me, but they have every right to exist and assemble just as every muslim has every right to exist and assemble, just as jews have a right to exist and assemle, etc. etc. -- If by speaking out against or quoting statements that many in the religious right have made makes me intolerant, doesn't that say the same about you and your stance against Madonna and those who approve of her use of the cross, even if they themselves are Christians?

You asked me to give you examples where the religious right has acted inappropriately and I did, then you say I am wrong for using those examples. Instead of judging me and saying that I am intolerant towards a group of people, shouldn't the correct Christian approach be to reach out, educate and help understand a fellow human being?

I never said I was against anti-immigration, don't pretend to know what I think or believe because like you said, you are not God. What I don't support is unjust and unfair heckling of people whose only crime is searching for a better way of life in a country where opportunity is abundant. If you want immigrants to stop migrating to the US, perhaps it is time you also get involved in how our country's foreign policies and flawed trade agreements affect the small worker and benefits large, mostly U.S. owned corporations. The argument of immigration does not end with: "those who enter illegally are bad/wrong, we are good/correct". There's more to the story and what cause leads to that effect involved.

perhaps you should apply some of the advice you gave me to yourself, I have not said a single hateful word nor do I harbor hatred in my heart towards you or anyone within the religious right. What I do have is total sadness for so much confusion, and hatred which has been spread throughout the world in the name of Christianity, particularly when Christ taught us and gave his life so that we may spread his message of unity, love and compassion. If that makes me intolerant, then so be it.

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 02:42 PM EST

Devin....

It is clear that you are completely unaware that the religious right, in general, has shifted its focus on a lot of issues, such as immigration and tolerance. You are clearly not aware of the new movements within religious conservatism, such as "Crunchy Cons", "Next Wave Faithful", and "post-modern worship" in its religious context.

Instead, you choose to quote from "religious right leaders", as if you should know. As if any of the people you quoted have any validity in these new movements.

The truth is, you're not against the religious right, but you're against anti-immigration. You're not against the religious right, but against anti-tolerance (and thus, have become intolerant in the process. Ironic.)

The religious right is simply not this huge behometh movement you want it to be. It is huge, disorganized, filled with differing beliefs, filled with Christians with tons of different opinions, but are united in the fact that they are Christians. (I wish there could be more unity, but different denominations will do that to ya.)

I encourage you to read your own words, and stop the hate in your own soul. You admitted that it wasn't logical "I never claimed to be right, I claimed that to be my opinion", therefore it has no place in someone trying to love God with their whole heart, soul, strength and mind.

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 02:15 PM EST

I didn't say they were racist, though many are.. I said the religious right are bigots. Do you know the definion of the word "Bigot"? A bigot is someone who is unforgiving or intolerant of someone with a different opinion than their own. Be it race, color, creed or religion. This is not an exact translation but I'm pretty sure it is very close, perhaps you can look it up and find out for yourself?

How do you want me to back up my claim that the religious right is bigoted and unjust? Isn't watching the news of their demonstrations enough? How about the way many in the religious right are members of the minutemen patrolling the border and are vocally attacking immigrants while completely ignoring Leviticus 19:33-34? How can someone quote Leviticus 18:22 when it comes to gays but ignore Leviticus: 19:33-34 when speaking about immigrants? There's no consistency in the way these people practice Christianity.

Here's a quote from a very well known religious right member:

"The atomic bomb is a marvelous gift
that was given to our country by a wise God."
Phyllis Schlafly

What?!?!? How can a bomb that could kill millions upon millions of mostly innocent people, since they would kill civilians and not the actual government officials of any given government, be a wonderful gift from God?!

here's another lovely quote:

"I want you just to let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
- Randall Terry (quote: Arizona Republic, July 1996)

Hate is good??! Since when?

In any event, I'm not here to advocate hatred and so I will no longer quote them but don't pretend to act like you don't know how insiduous the religious right's hatred and contempt is for anyone who doesn't share their one sided view of the world.

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 01:14 PM EST

Devin...

Throughout the post, you say that the religious right has hijacked Christianity. You say they are racist, that they promote un-Christian beliefs.

And then you say nothing else. And you leave it to me to interpret your comments. It's simply the best I can do to interpret them, when I mention "Theocracy" and "Republican Party"--since other anti-religious-right bigots have used the same term.

Like I said, you asked what I did to counter the hate that other Christians have done in the name of God. I answered by saying that I support the end of poverty, the end of AIDS, the end of wars, but it's not just lip service, I support organizations which are doing their part. I did not share the amount I gave, nor did I share the organization name, nor do I want a medal.

I apologize deeply if I misunderstood your comments. But, as it stands, I still misunderstand them. You lay out a claim, but do not bother to back it up:

"[They are] conjuring the name of the lord while their members go about the world abusing their power, their influence and resources to forward a non-christian message. "

I mean, if you do not explain what you're talking about, how do you expect me to get it right? And when I get it wrong, you have the freedom to say how I am always twisting your words.

You gotta be more clear. I cannot read your mind. I am not God. (The same, sadly, could not be said of Madonna).

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 01:00 PM EST

Nick,

The only problem I have with the religious right is their hypocrisy when conjuring the name of the lord while their members go about the world abusing their power, their influence and resources to forward a non-christian message. You don't have to agree with me, but please don't play it off like it's not the same thing you're doing with Madonna and her use of the cross. Yes, this is an entertainment thread and we are talking about Madonna and because you spoke of her use of a Christian symbol erroneously I decided to make a comparison argument about others who are using Christianity to promote un-Christian values and excusing un-Christian actions. It is not out of context, it is very much in context with the conversation at hand.

YOu asked me because I asked you first? I never asked you about your donations or your actions as a Christian or what charity you donate to, etc.. I asked something competletely different. I asked if you are also speaking out against others who use and abuse Christianity to further their own, selfish needs/agendas. It is not the same as saying: "as a Christian, what donations have you made? Do you help the poor, etc.." You chose to gloat about your donations all on your very own - I asked about who else you were speaking against when it comes to erroneously using symbols of our faith. You play games with words, Nick, just know that these threads cannot be edited.

"That said, you are not very clear in what your problems are with the religious right. But you are also quite mistaken about their influence, and their agenda. There is no desire to make a theocracy. Even if they would want a theocracy, the shining stars of the Republican party as it stands today (McCain, Giulliani), happen to be centrist."

I don't know how much clearer I can get with what problems or differences I have with the religious right; I said I don't agree about they divide people, discriminate about others and promote un-Christian values and actions. How much clearer do I have to be? I never claimed to be right, I claimed that to be my opinion. Just as you have an opinion about Madonna, and about me or anyone who doesn't agree with you, it seems.

When did I claim that there was a desire from the religious right wanting a theocracy? Was that a slip of the tongue on your part perhaps? Again, point out in my posts where I mentioned a theocracy. Here's a hint: never. Then you mention the Republican party, I fail to see where it was I mentioned the Republican Party, it would be redundant to link any single particular political party when the religious right is comprised with both Republicans and Democrats.

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:45 PM EST

Shelby next...

I was serious about what I wrote to Devin... your last response was lame.

I can understand about performance art as a whole... but performance art, when done right, will have the words, the song's tone, the theatrics, and the props, all join together to build upon each other. Therefore, it is perfectly legitimate to ask what each item in the artistic presentation does to improve upon the others.

You mention that "Anything can be read into the performance if you want" so blatantly contradicts your earlier statements: "I said that she is talking about war in general"; "She is on the cross to show that these are some of the reasons why christ was crucified."; "she is not mocking anyone or anything."; "those images show WHY she is on that cross in the first place and have to be shown along with her" and so forth.

Truth is, if her art is open to interpretation, then how come those who were offended by her presentation are not allowed to interpret her presentation in that particular way? And if art should be shown in full, then why will you not complain to NBC for editing out substantive parts of a once-religious/now-not Saturday morning kiddie show?

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:34 PM EST

Devin first...

I asked you, because you asked me. Plain and simple. I told you about donations, because if Madonna's statement is about ending poverty and wars, then know that when I criticize her, I am not just criticizing her decision, but I am also doing my part. Needless to say, like you, I did not like answering that question, because gloating is frowned upon in the Gospels. But I did, and held back from going into too great of detail, so as to not gloat.

I do not focus all of my energies against Madonna. As I have written before, when I write about a post, I try to stay on subject, or I try to answer questions directed at me. I don't shirk away from questions. If people associate my ability to debate a matter through its logical conclusion as going too deeply about something, then I have proven that they have not thought about it enough (namely, Shelby... whose lame excuse about "ask her" contradicts every single one of her statements beforehand--how the heck would she KNOW that Madonna did not intend to offend if she cannot create a convincing argument for all the pieces of this disco-cross-crown-of-thorns-Live-to-Tell-wars-are-stupid-AIDS-poverty jigsaw puzzle).

That said, you are not very clear in what your problems are with the religious right. But you are also quite mistaken about their influence, and their agenda. There is no desire to make a theocracy. Even if they would want a theocracy, the shining stars of the Republican party as it stands today (McCain, Giulliani), happen to be centrist.

The issues of censorship in the media goes both ways--which is why I bring up "VeggieTales", now a third time, to no responses thereafter. Any comparisons to Islamic Fundamentalism is simply a smear tactic--the two groups could not be further apart (like, as I explained earlier, if there is a major group who is offended, no fatwas are introduced).

If you have a problem with the religious right, then I heartily suggest that you take it up with them. I am not a member of the religious right, but here's the key: This is the e-n-t-e-r-t-a-i-n-m-e-n-t---w-e-e-k-l-y forum. You using this discussion to air your vague anti-religious-right views is unconsciable.

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:16 PM EST

Nick,

"Maybe if you stop labelling people you disagree with, you would start seeing authentic Christian witness."

Please re-read your comment above. Read it again, then please point out where in my post I labeled you or anyone for that matter, as anything. I simply explained that the religious right does not speak for me. Did I say that you are part of the religious right? Did I label you as such? If I did, please point it out. I simply responded to your erroneous previous post that "no one is hijacking Christianity", in my opinion, the religious right IS hijacking Christianity. They are the Christian version of extreme muslim fundamentalists. You don't have to agree with me, it is my opinion but please don't make up lies about anything I've said, do not try to twist my words to make you seem like you're being victimized because nothing could be further from the truth.

The fact still remains that you've already made up your mind about Madonna and her performance, I told you I agreed with you that it was in poor taste and it was blasphemous. At the same time, I asked what you were doing about others who are also using the cross and our religion to spread a completely different message than the one our religion has taught us to spread. You said that was a loaded question, I don't see how so. It is a legitimate question; if you're a christian and you judge others, or speak about others actions when it comes to our symbols of faith, then everyone is fair game to criticism not just one single woman (Madonna in this case).

It was at this point that you decided to inquire about my actions as a Christian, I suppose because I asked you what you were doing re: others using our cross to spread hatred. I never asked about what donations, if any you were making.. you decided to volunteer that information and asked about mine. This isn't a pissing contest, it's not about who does more charity than the other and what actions make a better Christian but rather how hypocritical we are when we criticize some and exempt others who do far worse harm to our cause as Christians.

If you are part of the religious right and my comment offended you then perhaps it's time you look at what the religious right preaches vs what they practice. I can assure you they are not the same.

If you are not part of the religious right but my comment offends you, why should that comment not be made? Is it not the same as you making comments about Madonna's use of the cross without regard as to who agrees or disagrees with you, because it is your opinion after all? It is no different, no different at all.

dan cullinane Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:36 AM EST

shelby hon -- i was actually reading your response to me and absorbing it and then you said that madonna's takes on sex and religion had been the most important cultural shift in 20 years...and i started laughing and i haven't been able to stop...you're like a good SNL skit...rachel dratch should play you...or your insane

Shelby Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:35 AM EST

You're kidding right?! You're quite funny.

For the final time, you are taking her crucifixtion too literally and are waiting to find holes in her argument, but you can't because only she really know and can explain it fully. i am just helping you to understand it, and it looks like you don't/can't do so.

Her song has nothing to do with wars, etc-but the performance as a WHOLE does. It mainly refers to poverty/AIDS due to the images on screen and less about war (I only mention war as it is destructive to this world/humanity). Anything can be read into the performance if you want-that is what performance art is about.
Plus, she's already done protest songs/performances pertaining to war on her last tour, so she wouldn't repeat it again this time around.

If you really want to know the reason behind it all ask her...or better yet watch Oprah on Wednesday and she might hopefully discuss it.

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:20 AM EST

Shelby...

If you are bored of this dialogue, it's because your answers raise more questions.

Therefore, please, tell me HOW "Live to Tell" could be understood to represent wars in general, and being crucified on a disco-cross.

Is she dying for the sins of all soldiers? Did the people who start wars put Madonna on a cross, because she has a deep buried secret that she doesn't want to tell, and that secret is that we should all live in "peace, love and harmony"? Is she solemenly saying "Forgive those soldiers, for they do not know what they do?" Was it Mel Gibson's hand that nailed her up there?

I mean, if you want a war-protest song, why not "Masters of War" by Bob Dylan? Or "Fortunate Son" by CCR? Even Culture Club had a better war song.

P.S.--I have not mentioned Iraq in my postings.

Shelby Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 10:55 AM EST

Nick: This debate boring me to be honest, and we'll have to agree to disagree. I said that she is talking about war in general, not necessarily the war in Iraq...you presumed that yourself just because she had been vocal about it before.

Again, concert prices are high for most high profile musicians, ie rolling stones. She charges what anyone would in her place and stature. Plus not too many people who attended the shows are complaining, as it was sold out everywhere. If it's too high don't go.

She is also putting her money where her mouth is and pledged 3 million dollars to build an orphanage in Malawi, so she doesn't just preach for the sake of it.

The lyrics of Live to Tell CAN be used to say what she is trying to get across-her message. Again, this is JUST a performance you must not take it so personally or rigidly-it is open to any interpretation you want. THAT IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, especially within art and performance art.

I will not comment on the whole Muslim Fatwa comment as that is irrelevent to this performance.

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 10:12 AM EST

Devlin...

Your problem is that you think I speak for the religious right. I am not. And I am still offended by Madge's callous theatrics. It goes beyond red-state/blue-state lines.

Maybe if you stop labelling people you disagree with, you would start seeing authentic Christian witness.

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 10:06 AM EST

Nick,

What am I doing, you ask? I volunteer at my church three times a week. We distribute food and clothes to the homeless, we hold adult literacy classes for free four nights a week and we distribute food and books to people who are HIV positive, on disability and/or on the last stages of AIDS.

There's more that I do, but I'm not here to toot my own horn and boast about what I do or don't do. My actions do not make me a better christian, nor do I expect to get a pat on the back for my actions. These actions I do because it is called upon me, as a Christian, to spread Christ's message of compassion, goodwill and love - maybe people will see that Christ is the door to salvation, maybe not but I am no one to judge them I am only here to do his bidding and spread his message.

I don't think my inquiry to you was a loaded one, after all, you seem to be so persistent to promote YOUR view and opinion on Madonna so I inquired what actions you were taking against others who are doing far worse in the name of Christianity. It's obvious that you and I don't share the same opinions of what is hijacking a religion and what isn't. The religious right does not speak for me, they do not represent me or my religion nor does their message thus in my opinion, they have hijacked my religion and are using it to divide people and spread hatred, all of which go against Christ's true message.

Ali-bali-b Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 08:55 AM EST

We`re supposed to live in a "the land of the fee" which America prides itself on being the fore-front champion & pinnacle of... "the poor people of Iran are suppressed" so lets go over, start a war blah blah blah...!!! Ths USA is a hypcrical as it gets, freedom of speech? Dont make me laugh! It has the largest drug problem, gun problem, areas of depravity of a 3rd world country... yet a couple of jumped up religious groups are offended by a "pop concert" & the whole country is up in arms! WTF??? Over here, we dont have our heads up our butts, the concert WILL be shown in full & if there is a healthy discussion about it, then so be it. Thats good & how it should be!
Madonna has been Madonna for 25yrs now, why is this sooooooooooooooooooooooo controversial? I`ll tell you... its becoz America is as two-faced as a dirty rotten criminal. Some-one mentioned earlier the TV shows that air murder, rape, torture etc... But hey, i guess thats just entertainment!!??!!?

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 08:38 AM EST

Devin...

To answer your question, I donate a sizeable amount of my income to a charity organization that goes to Third World countries and helps feed the hungry there. Some of these countries are war-torn, and this group often finds themselves on the front lines.

I also do what I can to communicate the Gospel, because I feel that it holds the answer to the questions people are asking for. I do this respecting other religious beliefs, but just because I respect them doesn't mean that both religions can logically co-exist. If Jesus says He is the only Way to salvation, you can either agree with Him wholeheartedly, or not, but it doesn't make a lick of sense to add Him to a list of great moral leaders. His claims paint Him as the Son of God, which is blasphemy to all other religions. It is irreconcilable.

I am not a preacher, nor a priest. How I do this is my own business, but I assure you it has been pretty effective.

That said, it is pretty incongruous of you to ask such a loaded question. There is no hijacking of Christianity. Pat Robertson, for all of his crazy tirades, has very little credibility in the Evangelical community, and I'm not even an Evangelical. But the mainstream media wouldn't know that. A church which has tons of ministries to the poor, the hurting, the widowed, the homeless--this is not something that you will read about in newspapers, nor in EW. This does not sell newspapers. This does not make pertinent documentaries with theater distribution.

If I debate on these boards, it's often to address issues that I see as pertinent to my own interests. And sometimes faith becomes a part of that. Ask me about other musicians/movies/tv shows/books, and you'll find that I am not taking orders... if you pay close attention, there is no such person dishing out orders in the religious communities.

Now, what are YOU doing (besides cutting and pasting from your online Bible)?

Devin Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 08:12 AM EST

Nick,

Answer me, please. What are you doing about the so called christians that have hijacked our religion. You have latched onto a woman, Madonna.. ok, I will agree with you that her use of the cross was blasphemous, now please, let's move on to other blasphemers.. what are you doing about them? Are you also visiting sites that promote or discuss their actions to defend your religion?

Are you?

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 07:48 AM EST

Wouldn't it make much better sense that, if she was truly concerned for poverty, that she stop charging $350.00 a ticket. Does she give $348.00 for each ticket to combat poverty?

The imagery also doesn't make sense because Jesus was fully blameless. He was a "pure lamb, white as snow." Madge cannot make any such claim. (Not to point fingers, but _nobody_ can make any such claim).

If she's saying that the wars are still going on, you ought to read a little bit more about the culture wars that are going on in radical, militant Islamic fundamentalists, the minority of which that has instigated these wars. Reading the best-seller "The Looming Tower", it is this growing laxness in media values towards sexual imagery and potential blasphemy that causes some devout Muslims to take their anger at the West a little too far. Perhaps if she really wanted to end wars, she would listen to her critics.

(Note: when a sizeable number of devout Christians are offended by the same image, we devout Christians do not issue fatwas).

Lastly, you have failed to mention what any of this has to do with the song "Live to Tell." It still doesn't hold any water.

Shelby Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:35 AM EST

She is on the cross to show that these are some of the reasons why christ was crucified. His crucifixtion is for the humanity of this earth, yet the same horrible things are still going on today (worse even) and little is being done today. Poverty, hunger, disease, war, conflict, hatred, etc. The song equates the message a little, and as for her being on the cross: she is showing why He died. She is not saying that she is Christ just that he died for us. It is a performance, she is not mocking anyone or anything. If the image is so wrong then people should stop wearing crosses around their necks as jewelry, for example.

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.

whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did to me."

Nick Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:17 AM EST

Shelby...

Then WHY is Madge on the cross in the first place?

Is she dying for those people's sins?
Does she have a secret in her heart, about those people behind her, that she wants peace love and harmony so much that it breaks her down and thus, must be crucified?

The imagery, the song, and the theatrics--don't gel. Prove otherwise.

Shelby Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 05:29 AM EST

Dan: you seem to know an aweful lot about Madonna, when you "act" to dislike her and dismiss her. You should know by now never to dismiss her! A. who cares if she is aging? she's still better than those twenty somethings anyway. B. She is a great promoter and marketer, but she is sooo much more than that and you know it, so that argument is really old and tiresome. yes they should teach her at some sort of wanna be pop star/ celebrity college, because then all theses so-called wannabe celebrities can learn the trade. C. Live to Tell was only put on Sean Penns movie after it was out on her own album first. D. Madonna's address of sex and religion has been the most important cultural shift in the last 20 years. What other artist has made such movements happen, especially in the US. She is an artist who at least creates argument (this thread is a good example)and that is significant enough. So may she continue on her road while the world watches in awe.

Nick: I never stated that the images behind her were the better part of her performance, just that those images show WHY she is on that cross in the first place and have to be shown along with her. Plus most people who have not seen the show, don't know about those images and they should see the full performance before judging it.

dan cullinane Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 01:21 AM EST

oh my god you guys, madonna is a mediocre talent who has been using the twin cattle prods of sex and religion since she began her career...its how she has managed to hold onto the spotlight for as long as she has...its admirable and they should teach madonna in marketing and publicity courses, but stop debating it like it has artistic or theological meaning or merit. madonna does what she does in the interest of promoting madonna. its impressive, but its not anything bigger than that. let it go. and if you want to find out whats going on in the world, and you really care, read a book, or a magazine, or visit the web site of amnesty international, or doctors without borders, don't go all frothy at the mouth over the platitudes projected behind an aging pop singer hanging from a cross singing the theme song from one of her ex-husband's least memorable movies...really...wake up.

Indianafan Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 07:35 PM EST

Madonna for president.

Indianafan Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 07:28 PM EST

Christians may be getting upset over Madonna, but at least she isn't molesting little kids like them catholic priests have been doing.

Nick Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 06:55 PM EST

Devin,

There is a BIG difference between conveying a cross to promote Christianity, and mimicking the crucifixion in the most obsene manner. As awful as a charlaton preacher is, that preacher, or NO preacher, would ever dare put themselves on a disco cross, with crown of thorns intact. (Other people may have crucified other Christians like this in the past, but even Peter refused to be crucified in the same manner, prefering to be crucified upside down). The imagery is that holy to Christianity.

Two: Madge has long abandoned Christianity for Kabballah, a Jewish sect. Good for her. Thus, she is not "endorsing Christianity."

Three: Just because I find holes in the argument that Madge is "promoting peace, love and harmony" does not mean I am judging her, any more than you trying to find holes in my argument. I sincerely believe (as most people in this thread) that Madge is simply using a shock tactic to create free publicity. That she does so under the guise of "promoting peace, love and harmony" is particularly insulting to those of my faith.

To "judge" somebody, is to say that person is going to hell if they do A, B, and C. I do not lay any such claim. But to criticize somebody, for insulting my faith, (even if others from the same faith do not feel insulted), is valid. NBC did right for removing the offensive imagery, but they would even improve upon Madge's presentation if they kept it to those images that play behind her.

Because (remember, this is not judging), the song "Live to Tell", the plea for peace, and a mock crucifixion on a disco cross--none of this makes logical sense. Even those who support the performance have yet to make logical heads or tails about it.

Devin Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 06:00 PM EST

Nick,

I'm not judging you for I'm sure there are far worse things I have done. The earlier comments on the first thread were co-related to Madonna's decision to use a cross, even if her message was that one of peace, compassion and humanity which are at the core values of true Christianity. I simply asked if you felt as strongly about others who have also used the cross only to convey a completely different message and one of hatred and bigotry which are not part of the Christian dogma.

My second posting to you again was not judging you, I only pointed out you feel you can judge Madonna for her use of the cross without acknowledging her message while all the same not judging others who have done far worse. If someone using a cross to promote Christianity offends you, why are you not offended when someone uses the cross to promote hatred and discrimination?

One cannot pretend to be a righteous Christian and cherry pick who is or isn't righteous or sinner because we are all sinners.

Nick Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 02:03 PM EST

Devin...

Take the plank out of your own eye before you administer it to others, (namely, me).

Coz, to you, the only terrible sin worth a confrontation is standing up against mockery. And you have yet to prove that it is not mockery.

But then you come out against me with the furor of a Robert Tilton on amphetamines. Maybe if you stop judging an entire religious denomination with your venom you would see that there's some serious stupidity on Madge's part.

Devin Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 01:36 PM EST

Nick,

With that response you show how narrow minded and biased you are. Regardless of what argument, reason or plea anyone makes, you have made your decision to judge Madonna no matter what. Who are you to judge her?

I hope God forgives you but just know that he will judge you with the same measures you are judging others.

Nick Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 11:50 AM EST

Devin...

If you want to complain about hypocrisy in religious circles, by all means, do so... but you should wait until EW does an online popwatch article about such. As it stands, the story here is about Madonna, and not about what you write of. Therefore, what I comment on pertains to the subject matter.

Your use of Bible quotes ignores the fuller context of the fact that just because somebody sins, or does something erroneous, does not give them a full blanket excuse to continue sinning/offending. Jesus confronted the adulterous woman and said, "does anybody condemn you?" She responded, "No, my Lord." He responds, neither do I condemn you--GO and SIN NO MORE." Had the adulterous continued, she would be guilty. But if she were truly penitent, she would not sin anymore.

As it stands, Madge will continue with her charade.

Shelby...

When NBC said they will not show Madge on the cross, that does not mean that the images behind her will not be shown. I guess that it will show those images, which will be cool, which you now freely admit is the better part of the performance, and not the ill-chosen offensive cross-theatrics, which do everything in its power to overshadow the real meaning of her message.

Peace all... you all gotta lighten up a little.

Stephanie Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 11:00 AM EST

Ron:

EXACTLY! How many times have the subjects of rape and murder been used in cop, law, and medical shows? There is too much violence on television as it is and religious people have absolutely no problem with it being shown, but have a problem with nudity or some stupid stunt of Madonnas? That's silly.

Shelby Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 07:03 AM EST

Nick: What the they are implying is that Madonna has taken her song Liv to Tell and made it relevant to the message she is sending in that particular segment, while on a cross. No one is saying that Jesus is saying the words to this song, just that it is a valid point. The screens behind the crossn and Madonna show images of poverty, war, etc and words from the bible (see Devin's post below).

No one seems to know these facts unless they have seen the performance, especially those Christian groups, and now NBC are not going to show it in its entirety, which is a total cop out.

Devin Sat, Oct 21, 2006 at 03:27 AM EST

Nick,

No one is trying to make excuses for Madonna's decision to use the cross and perch herself on one to convey her message, however crass that may be. I think there are far worse things that others have done with the cross in the name of "Christianity" while doing something completely un-Christian. Tell me, how does it feel to have so many so called "faithful" use the cross to convey a message of hate, bigotry, discrimination, racism and exclusiveness? You don't think it happens? I suggest you take a quick trip down to the bible belt and see for yourself. There are many baptist pastors who use the cross to divide and instigate hatred among their followers and other Christians. If the cross means so much to you, why aren't you boycotting them? Do you approve of these pastors stripping every last cent from their followers while they live in extravagantly furnished homes and drive expensive cars? Do you approve of the cross as a tool to instigate hatred towards gays? Fred Phelps thinks that "God Hates Fags" and has written this on a cross at many demonstrations, is that OK with you?

Do you know what Christ's messages were while on earth? Leaving Madonna aside, let's assume it were another performer.. how is the message she was trying to convey against anything that Christ preached while giving the sermon on the mount?

I leave you with these quotes from Christ's most powerful sermon about the lord's prayer, the beatitudes, the warnings:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you."

"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Many will say to Me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

These can be found on the 5th, 6th and 7th chapters of the book of Matthew in their entirety.

I don't mean to confront you and argue about Madonna but rather discourse with you regarding the hypocrisy displayed by so many "Christians" who are more concerned with one woman's misguided use of the cross while completely overlooking her very Christian message of humanity, goodwill and charity.

***

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.

whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did to me."

Jen Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 09:05 PM EST

After reading all the comments, I can see both sides of the story on this. But I am leaning more to the first amendment side. I'm glad that they are showing her on TV, as she is a FAB performer-and her music is something I've grown up to-starting from the age of 10 until today. I agree that when it comes to TV, people have a choice-to watch or not to watch. Unfortunately, for those who might have wanted to see the concert in full.....we don't have a choice.

Nick Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 08:40 PM EST

The excuses people make trying to "justify their love" for Madonna's Live To Tell, a mediocre song at best, juxtaposed with a crucifixion imagery (complete with crown of thorns), is... just plain embarrassing for them. Don't you know what a crucifixion signifies?!? It doesn't signify "having a secret that's she's keeping inside of her and she's conflicted about it." Ummm... did Jesus have a secret that He kept inside of Him and He's conflicted about it? Was Jesus crucified because His secret was literally putting Him up on the cross?

If only Madge would make sense with her imagery.

Mario Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 08:35 PM EST

"It's not like I was looking forward to seeing Madonna sing "Live to Tell" while mounted on a disco-mirrored crucifix anyway. Madge's martyr complex may be the most tiresome element of her persona."

Gary Susman, with the statement above, you prove how much of an idiot you really are. Thanks for showing once again why you work at Entertainment Weekly and not on an actual news media paper since you are a sorry excuse for a journalist. If you were a real journalist, you would at least have mentioned the message behind the crucifixion and what she hoped to accomplish by promoting real Christianity and it's message of compassion, love and a cry for help for people whose lives are in a state you could never possibly understand. Voicing YOUR opinions instead of being objective, as a real journalist should be, shows anyone who visits this site and reads this thread, what a fraud you really are.

Indianafan Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 08:21 PM EST

From my line of work, I know people who claim to be religious that swear, cheat on spouses, lie, steal, get high, need I say more.

Therefore, NBC should air the "Live to Tell" segment the way it was performed, so that these Madonna haters can question their own merits.

To all Madonna fans, I have been hearing "Jump" on the radio :).

shelby Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 07:36 PM EST

Well she would have been paid by NBC if the concert was shown on tv or not. So it wasn't about the money at all.

shelby Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 07:36 PM EST

Well she would have been paid by NBC if the concert was shown on tv or not. So it wasn't about the money at all.

Adam Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 07:14 PM EST

I must admit, I found the crucifixion image to be fascinating and on-point - it was certainly a shocking image, and an interesting metaphor for the celebrity-philanthopy connection as well. This is not the resolution I expected to this story. Shame on Madonna for bending over and exchanging freedom of expression for an NBC paycheck. Shame on NBC for further homogenizing television. Most of all, shame on those who made such noise about this. Apparently all it takes is the mention of blasphemy to distract the Jesus-Freak Machine from hypocritically salivating over Desperate Housewives (or whatever). Anyone who is even remotely curious about this controversy has at this point watched the crucifixion on YouTube a million times over. If you haven't yet, let me do my part to make sure that you have the chancve to judge for yourself - here's the link!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7NiNNBveTDI

shelby Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 06:23 PM EST

Mahsh: you, like A LOT of people especially in the US, give Madonna WAY too much credit for publicity. Adopting a Malawian baby for publicity was the most hilarious thing I heard this week. LET IT GO PEOPLE!

Yes, at one point she did do things (maybe) for publicity, but not anymore...she has way more important things to do than sit there and think of this crap! this says more about you than her in actaulity.

Mahsh Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 05:18 PM EST

NBC: "How do we stir up some good old fashioned Madonna controversy PR? We need a ratings hit!"

MADGE: "Well, the Church is always an easy target. After Janet's failed manipulation with the boobs, we should probably go for something sacriligious"

"Good. I love it. Release the news again about people being offended in... Italy was it? Romania? Well, whatever crazy catholic 3rd world it was. Then we'll get some blogs going, then pretend we're deciding about whether we can air it"

"yeah, go ahead and cut it. Paint me as annoyed, and disappointed and reluctant and (of course) artistic, then I'll release my DVD about it later in the year as "UnCut and UnCensored. I come out on top as an uncompromising artist, you get to look like heroes to Middle America."

"fabulous doing bizniss with ya Madge."

"Likewise. Make sure to get me free lightbulbs."

mj Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 05:09 PM EST

it truly amazes me how stupid people are. this entire "controversy" is being manufactured to raise the profile of this concert.

dan cullinane Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 05:00 PM EST

see nick, i tried to warn you. madonna could crucify her little stolen malawi baby and the girls would just keep dancing away...

Ron Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 04:34 PM EST

I saw the concert live and the much talked about crucifixion isn't a big deal. It just seems that all people hear is Madonna + crucifix = offensive. The concert is aptly called "The Confessions" tour. In between songs, she has characters come on stage and confess to a variety of topics. Her being on a cross and singing Live to Tell was actually very classy, and much less tame and controversial than when she wore the cone bra to Like a Virgin.

If you actually paid attention to the lyrics of Live to Tell, its a about a song of someone having a secret that's she's keeping inside of her and she's conflicted about it. When I saw the show, the crucifixion was a visual representation of what the song is about. It's about having a secret so big that you either feel that you'll be cruxified for telling it, or you have so much guilt that you feel crucixified for what you're keeping a secret.

Besides, I don't get the point why people are so offended when they haven't even see it. Second, if you're offended by crucifixion imagery, there are a lot more things that take the cross and mess with it. I mean, look at the symbol for West Coast Choppers. It's on a cross!

Honestly, this country has more to worry about than a singer on a cross or seeing Janet Jackson's breasts. How Christian are you when you find breast more offensive than the depiction of rape, murder, drug abuse and violence? Honestly, if you're offended by Madonna on a cross singing a song, maybe it's time you become Amish and leave the rest of the debauchery to the forsaken who actually want to think for themselves.

Stephanie Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 04:02 PM EST

First off I am not really sure what "Live to Tell" has to do with a crusifix but still, NBC is a wussie. OOh, we are going to lose southern and midwestern affilates, boo-hoo! Grow up! If one is not allowed to express themeselves then this is not America. NBC = Nothing But Commies.

fredric Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 03:42 PM EST

To all those people talking about having paid a large sum of money to see Madonna in concert only to be "insulted": this was national news online and on TV long before her concert made it to the States. Surely since you read entertainment blogs like this, you must have had SOME idea of what you were buying into. Even if you didn't... it's Madonna... do you think you'd go to a concert and not expect something like this? Seriously?

Liza Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:54 PM EST

Seriously now. Who cares that Madonna is tied to a crucifix? If you don't like it, don't watch it. Don't ask NBC to cut the part out. Don't these people have anything better to do? Like organise a bible study group or something.

Nick Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:49 PM EST

Dan, I suspect you have never been in a position where an artist you like says/does something that completely offends you, and you are torn between leaving (thus, throwing away hundreds of dollars), or pushing yourself thru the crowded row, "excuse me, excuse me, sorry", only to find that the music is piped in whereever you go. Or worse, if you paid to go to the general admission floor, and you don't dare move lest you lose your spot.

Years ago I went and saw a female musician whom I knew next-to-nothing about, and while I enjoyed most of the show, she went into a diatribe that utterly insulted me and misrepresented what my beliefs were. It's not like I can dialogue in a situation like that. It's not like I can be obnoxious like the person screaming "Judas!!" at a Bob Dylan concert. To you, the answer is that I have free choice... to kiss mucho dinero bye-bye.

On television, we do have the luxury to change the channel if something offensive comes on. But if that were truly the case, then NBC has consistently placed a double-standard--which is the central issue here. Had they kept Madge's mockery of the crucifixion intact (even tho to you it illogically wasn't a mockery), and still chose to censor Larry the Cucumber and Bob the Tomato for sharing innocuous interdenominational religious messages on Saturday mornings, then it's almost as if the only approved form of bigotry in the mainstream media is against Christians. Which is wrong.

Rob... if David Bisbal ever becomes a household name in the US, and pulls that trick, there would be an outcry. Kanye West did the same thing and there most certainly was an outcry... even from atheists: how the heck does an overpaid non-talent have the audacity to say his struggles are equivalent to those of Christs? What a pompous fill-in-the-blank...

Ed Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:29 PM EST

Oooh Nick, Dan C served you!

Dan C, a queen and his Madonna - LOVE IT!

rob Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:26 PM EST

If Madonna does the crucifixion everyone talks about it and has a problem, but if someone else does it, like David Bisbal (very popular latin singer from Spain), does it in his music video and puts it on the cover of his CD 'Premonicion' it don't matter.

www.amazon.com/Premonicion-David-Bisbal/dp/B000I2IQBA/sr=8-1/qid=1161372160/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8206490-0580842?ie=UTF8

Dan Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 02:25 PM EST

Nick,

You're talking about two completely different things. The concert live and the cutting of a scene by NBC.

To those who paid $350 for their seats and were offended, what can I say? They could've left and gone to the bathroom during that scene, or, left entirely. Again, free choice.

Finally -- I highly doubt that there were that many peope going to the show who were offended/surprised. It was all over the media for weeks AND I'm skeptical that Madonna has many overly religious fans in the first place (or at least religious enough to take the scene "literal").