'Studio 60' and Strangely Familiar Writing

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Hooray for G&S Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 12:29 PM EST

The ratings issue may not be such a big issue for this show. I suspect the whole Vanity Fair momlogue from the 2nd episode was working to point that while Studio 60 may have fewer viewers they are loaded viewers.

Also, I wasn't expecting Studio 60 to be a comedy,it's backstages.As many an E Hollywood story can tell you, comedians aren't funny-- they're depressed, lovelorn, alcoholics with daddy issues. That makes for great drama. The stories have been very entertaing. (With funny moments)

Lastly, I liked the Nancy Grace sketch and missed the G&S but like them as a rule. ( my early exposure was from Animaniacs) I think it's peculiar that people would adore a Music Man cover from Conan , which I did, but got so harsh against material derivedfroma much better show. I also like Harriet as a Christian with nuances. That never happens on television. As a liberal Christain it's really fun to watch liberals who see nuances in everything but view Christians in a monolith lose their minds. I'm going to keep watching.

mike Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 10:38 AM EST

to clarify previous post, i couldn't find exactly where the quote appeared in sports night, but i'm pretty sure it did and sam says it in episode 4.2 after telling mallory that he stole part of the speech he wrote from Camelot.

mike Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 10:31 AM EST

another line sorkin used in both sports night and the west wing, probably will make an appearance at some point in studio 60, and is eerily relevant to this topic of conversation:
"good writers borrow from other writers, great writers steal from them outright."

Lynn Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 09:39 AM EST

On Moonlighting, Bruce Willis did a great G&S song - he was in jail, working on a chain gang, and he and the rest of the prisoners did a song and dance to a spoof of "When I Was a Lad" from Pinafore.

Sam Sun, Oct 1, 2006 at 12:48 PM EST

For those asking who cares; I care!
Sorkin is held up as some sort of god of TV. He's not. Once you've seen a few episodes of any of his shows you've seen pretty much all he can offer. He uses the same names, same characters [even hires the same actor to ensure he gets the same character!] he is repetitive, he has problems writing romantic relationships, he runs out of ideas three episodes into a show, his character and story development is poor and he uses the same dialogue patterns and actual words over and over. The defence that Sorkin writes intelligent TV and if you don't like it it's because it's beyond you is old. I don't like Studio 60 because I've seen it all before. It's not new or fresh and I'll take a formularic cop show over the over-hyped twaddle Studio is any day of the week. Posters were raving about a line on studio the other day, 'Stop talking. You bet'. Not a line even worth repeating and one that I've heard so many times before. If people think that's the stuff that will save TV then I'm okay with TV not being saved.

Karla Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 01:44 PM EST

Personally, as a member of the intelligentsia (you can tell who we are, because we know how to spell it), I'm alarmed beyond all measure at the rise of the American Christian right.

I'm astonished that Christians themselves don't rise up against the movement's wild eyed, rabid homophobia, the absurdist ID movement, and the dangerous, militaristic reactionism - because any student of history knows exactly where this will end.

Beyond the immediate need for moderate, thinking Christians to stand up and wrestle Christianity back from the brink, it would be wonderful if Sorkin could create a pious Christian who was also self-aware and able to see the very real failings of her own movement. He seems to be falling into the trap of utilizing her as a side show piece (hey lookee - it's a fundamentalist who kin speak all purty!) and a punching bag in absentia.

I'm just saying - If you're gonna play with the stereotype, bring more to it. Otherwise, it's just another buncha noise in a very noisy country full of unproductive partisan yammer.

Dave Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 01:08 PM EST

Matt's comment about the 700 Club was in regards to the bigot that is the HOST of the 700 Club. And you know what? If people celebrate him and agree with him without bothering to realize how hateful and hypocritical he is, then it should apply to them too. I love how those on the religious right who feel threatened by Hollywood argue that liberals are just as discriminatory and prejudicial. Liberals are the opposite: we don't care how you live your life, just don't force your "values" onto the rest of society. It's that simple.

Jane Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 12:28 PM EST

"he goes after the histrionic, extremists who believe everyone should be exactly like them and live their lives according to some reactionary and dogmatic interpretation of religious doctrine." You mean like liberals? As a San Franciscan/Los Angeleno who went to Berkeley, I've noticed that the liberal intelligencia tends to think you must be some kind of Nazi if you don't think like them. Notice Matt's comment about the 700 Club. I'm not defending the 700 Club, but that comment seemed a bit unfair.

bob Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 10:17 AM EST

lets see. an unfunny show about the goings on at an even unfunnier show

hmmmm interesting concept.

Dave Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 10:03 AM EST

Meme's right, it's not all Christians that Sorkin is lambasting. Rather, he goes after the histrionic, extremists who believe everyone should be exactly like them and live their lives according to some reactionary and dogmatic interpretation of religious doctrine. I'm sorry, but those type of people (i.e., Pat Roberston) deserve all the negative treatment they get from people like Sorkin because they seem to be the only ones willing to call these so-called "good Christians" on their prejudice, hateful teachings, and blatant hypocrisy.

yellojkt Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 09:10 AM EST

The two smart guys that really run the place is the most obvious Sports Night comparison. Especially when one abused drugs "eleven years" ago and they have a female bos watching their back against the suits.

Carmen Fri, Sep 29, 2006 at 07:07 AM EST

Funny that you mention Mark McKinney and the "head of cabbage" because I believe that refers to a Kids in the Hall character (Bruce McCulloch's) that, literally, has "a cabbage for a head."

Joe Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 11:50 PM EST

Well, I hear that when Aaron Sorkin takes a dump, it comes out as solid gold and wrapped in a bow! :)

Diane Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 08:25 PM EST

Aaron Sorkin borrowed from homself using plot lines from Sports Night in West Wing (fathers of central characters in both shows had affairs that went on for years) and from American President to West Wing (central characters both used this same line to a child..."all you had to do to make me happy was to come home at night"). Who cares! Aaron Sorkin is back on the air and all is right with the world.

Jill Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 08:15 PM EST

ANYTHING Sorkin can implement from Sports Night would be welcome. Particuarly since I am concerned that Studio 60 doesn't seem to get the "funny" thing. The characters talk about it a lot, and there is clever dialogue, but none of the characters appear to be funny. Sorkin did comedy really well in Sports Night, let's hope he can recreate it here.

Jeremy Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 05:22 PM EST

I could careless if Sorkin recycles his material a little bit. I'm entertained for an hour - and have been for years with his shows - so I can take it. Ya, I notice it but so what? You can't plagiarize something YOU wrote.

As for 'Sports Night' - like many people posting, I really enjoyed it. But now that I am anchoring on a two-person sports show myself - I see how friggin brilliant it was!

Like many good things on TV (Freaks & Geeks, Firefly, Undeclared) it got yanked too soon by the typical network idiots.

And 'Jericho' is absolute crap - I didn't need to see the second show to know that.

Bea Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 04:32 PM EST

I adored Sports Night the early West Wing years. I was disappointed when storylines from Sports Night appeared on the West Wing. Then I saw The American President and saw some parallels between the movie and both shows. More disappointment! Nobody writes dialogue better than Sorkin, but he does need to branch out his story ideas. He even likes to use the same names!

ceej Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 04:25 PM EST

Homage or rip-off? Who cares! I still wanna know... if Harriet is a 'devout Christian," what is she doing fornicating with Matt?

That's why I love this show.. it makes us ask the tough questions...

meme Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 03:23 PM EST

One more thing, on The West Wing, Christianity was not always associated with being right wing and therefore evil. The President was Catholic for goodness sake!

meme Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 03:22 PM EST

Oscar Wilde also ripped himself off. If I remember English 206 correctly, there is some dialogue in The Picture of Dorian Grey that is identical to an exchange in The Importance of Being Earnest. As for Sorkin, I can't remember the specific example, but I know there was a line from The West Wing that was identical to one in The American President.

Also have to agree with a previous post that Sorkin is not the only one who is guilty of having a slew of similar shows. Unlike Dick and Jerry, at least his aren't all on at the same time!

As for the whole "Christian" thing, as I see it, both this show and The West Wing (which I admit I stopped watching around season 3) are not taking on all Christians -just the over zealous judgemental ones who are all up in everyone's business all the time. I can recall several episodes of the West Wing (the one where the President could choose to stop and execution and the one with the Chinese refugees claiming religious persecution come to mind) where Christianity and religion in general were treated very reverentially and respectfully.

Howard Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 03:20 PM EST

Const, Sorkin did take on the evangelicals in the first episode of the West Wing, but the difference here is that he portrays one, namely Harry, in a positive light. Too often in WW, Sorkin had any group affiliated with the Right as eeeeevil. Wells made it a little more objective. On either side of the aisle, some were good and some were bad, which is closer to real life.

If Sorkin's cribbing from Sports Night, so much the better. The first season of that show stands up to any classic comedy (second season not as much, but still pretty great - there were signs that Sorkin was devoting too much attention to "The West Wing" and cocaine). I'd like him to go a step further and show the characters on Studio 60 watching Sports Night, just so I know everyone's doing OK. Heck, I'd rather have seen Felicity Huffman in that first episode as Dana rather than as herself.

Cynic Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 03:16 PM EST

Maybe instead of offering their audience an "intellectual reach around", they should have offered an...oh well, never mind...

Let's talk about Jericho...man, it really got worse last night, didn't it? Poor Skeet.

const Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:53 PM EST

I couldn't agree more.

"Everyone" loves to say Sorkin shows are so "cerebal" and if you critcize it, "you just don't get it". Well,

I do get it. It's not cerebral, it's formulaic. Even picking on Christians. The first episode of the West Wing did the same thing.

Greg Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:49 PM EST

Sorkin also recycled a lot of dialogue and jokes from Sports Night and used them in the first few seasons of the West Wing, so I am not suprised. But since only avid DVD totin' fans of all of both series will notice anyway.

Mark Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:44 PM EST

does this suprise anyone? he also used a bunch of cast members, and a bunch of the same names on the west wing that he originally used in the american president. he utilizes good material in different situations. he's a bloody genious and can do whatever the hell he wants.

Rorschach Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:32 PM EST

Sports Night will FOREVER be the best show in the history of television...SHAME on ABC for unceremoniously dropping it.....and Paula Marshall had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT (she was great, as always, in her role as a ''choreo-animator''

Quo Vadimus?

Dave Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:29 PM EST

Um, why would they talk about Jericho in a Studio 60 post...

becky Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:20 PM EST

Who Cares?? Talk about Jericho!!

Dave Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:19 PM EST

Actually, Sorkin didn't cast Kristen Chenowith on The West Wing. She was cast in Season 6, and Sorkin left the show after Season 4. I love all the "uproar" over the fact Studio 60 is similar to Sports Night and The West Wing. Last I checked, those shows were created by Sorkin and were fantastic. Since this is his show too, who cares if he uses some ideas and plot devices that he used on those earlier shows? As long as it makes for good TV, I don't understand why people care. Lighten up and enjoy it! The writing is still good and it's still different and better than anything else on TV. I wonder why no one seems to mind that all of Jerry Bruckheimer and Dick Wolf's shows seem the same...

Ep Sato Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:10 PM EST

The only Gilbert and Sullivan tributes worth their weight in salt have all been animated. The Simpsons did a fantastic tribute to G&S in their send up of Cape Fear, and Dangermouse (the british cartoon about a mouse who immitates 007) had a cool timetravel episode where he and Penfold bump into the actual Pirates of Penzance. Them scenes with the plank and the acapella version of "for he is the Pirate King" can't be topped by anyone!

Cliff Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:07 PM EST

Also, Sorkin cast his ex-girlfriend Kristin Chenowith on West Wing. Kristin Chenowith, who is a Christian and released an album of inspirational music. Wonder if she thinks the current storyline sounds familiar?

Nate Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 02:01 PM EST

The preview for this weeks episode says it's about what happens when the power goes out, like that Sports Night episode where ummm.... the power went out

Joel Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 01:48 PM EST

I liked the episode, but the G&S open they came up with, the open that would have to clear the bar, sucked. Nobody would find that edgy or funny. Maybe they will deal with that in the next episode. I don't think they should show much of the skits if they are going to continue to pretend that these guys are as clever as Matt Stone and Trey Parker.

Rosie Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 01:43 PM EST

Forget if it's already been done: the G&S bit was BORING. Matthew Perry and Bradley Whitford's characters are supposed to rescue TV and make Studio 60 edgy? Why go Broadway? That was about as edgy as Ashlee Simpson.

Mike Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 01:00 PM EST

I'm disapointed that so many people have mentioned Gilbert and Sullivan’s but NOT mentioned the episodes of the West Wing where G&S appereaed. Remeber when Ainsle Hays was hired, Sam Seaborn mentioned he was the Secretary for the G&S club. I would bet anything that Sorkin was the G&S secretary at college.

Laura Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:42 PM EST

Oh come on, people seemed surprised, Aaron Sorkin is nefarious for plagiarizing other peoples work, it's almost like a Hollywood open secret, how many scenes from West Wing were taken directly from blogs, magazine articles, and Salon.com, it is almost embarrasing. Yes, his dialogue is great, pretty much because other writers have written it before. He just takes what works, and gives it a twist. This is not new nor should be surprising. If I were a writer, i'd be careful to keep my words and ideas as far from A.S. as possible.

Kaybar Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:42 PM EST

If this show is a rip-off or re-run of Sports Night, so much the better. I loved SN and at least Sorkin is stealing from himself!

Nick Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:19 PM EST

I'm just wondering... did Jello pudding pops pay for the endorsement, under the guise of the discussion between a castmember complaining to the director?

And how did Harriet successfully sing a double platinum gospel album if she can't sing a lick?

Martin Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:14 PM EST

I don't care if it works. Now talk about Jericho! http://moviemartin.blogspot.com/2006/09/tubealicious-treats-according-to-some.html

mike Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:13 PM EST

A little perspective: stealing a joke from your own show seven years ago is still infinitely better than 20 hours of police procedurals every week. Direct the boards to come up with resonances on L&O.

meredith Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:08 PM EST

I wonder if Sorkin's going to write another episode where a cast member writes a letter to fill time. I'm talking about the Sports Night episode where Jeremy writes a letter to his sister during a prolonged tennis match and where there's a filibuster in the Senate and everyone writes emails. I liked it the first two times, but maybe three would be a little much...

Karla Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:05 PM EST

Nice catch with the G&S lift. 1995 was the last time that skit would have worked - for the last vestiges of the boomers. Now, it's embarrassingly out of date.

I wonder if Sorkin has any chance of reaching out to da yutes, or overseeing writing that would make the show-within-a-show feel at all relevant.

I just don't want to see this thing devolve into a bunch of old, self-referential farts pining for the good old days (of which there were few) and crabbing about bloggers and that newfangled internet.

Flick Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:04 PM EST

Honestly, I can't complain about the similarities between Sports Night and Studio 60. Sports Night was unfairly ripped from the networks, and it's nice to finally get some more of the rapid fire, behind-the-scenes style comedy on a weekly basis. I just hope that Studio 60 lasts.

Karen Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 11:57 AM EST

Every scene in the control room takes me back to the good ole days of "Sports Night." However, Amanda Peet is no Felicity Huffman. In fact, she's quite (to steal from Mr. Cruise) quite "glib" throughout every episode and, therefore, incredibly annoying. Wipe that half-smile off your face, girl!

Stephanie Travitsky Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 11:56 AM EST

See, Sports Night under a different setting. Can't Sorkin think of a better idea for a show?