Pia Toscano was never a frontrunner, says 'Idol' EP Nigel Lythgoe

Pia-Toscano

Image Credit: Michael Becker/Fox

The American Idol judges may have been shocked that Pia Toscano was sent home last week, but Idol EP Nigel Lythgoe wasn't. "I know the [voting]

results, so I know she was never a frontrunner,” Lythgoe revealed in an on-camera interview with Yahoo! Music‘s Reality Rocks at Friday’s Vegas callback auditions for another of his shows, So You Think You Can Dance. He admitted he was upset about the results, but added, “The fact of the matter is that it appears that Pia didn’t connect with the audience as much as we maybe think she did. And she wasn’t voted through.” Watch the interview below.

Rather than make this about how we each felt about Pia (I’m with Ken Tucker), let’s debate something else Nigel revealed: He said he could see Idol considering changing the voting format next season to something akin to SYTYCD, meaning America would determine the bottom three but the judges would decide who leaves the show. That would ultimately be a call for Simon Fuller, Lythgoe said. But what do you think? Part of me thinks it would be good to make the judges actually work, but the majority of me thinks America won’t appreciate having their power stripped. Nor will it trust that this panel, which has been criticized for its lack of criticism, would get it right.

Read more:
Pia Toscano: Why (one of) the right one(s) was voted off
American Idol exit Q&A: Pia Toscano tears up while discussing her ‘amazing memories’
Inside TV podcast: Are the judges to blame for Pia’s shocking ‘Idol’ exit?


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  • Brittany

    Sounds like damage control to me. Maybe tons of adults didn’t vote enough because they actually have lives. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t a frontrunner. If people didn’t like her people wouldn’t be going crazy.

    • The Devil

      I haven’t seen/heard many people besides the media complain about Pia’s early exit. Sure, there’s a group now trying to get her reinstated, but around my office’s watercooler, most people are very indifferent to Pia. Sure, great voice, but no presence or charm whatsoever.

      • Nath

        Really and why are you commenting on this now. When Ashton, Thia, Rodriguez, Naima got eliminated did anybody even care. So she must have something special for her to get that much media attention. Her twitter now have 101 000 followers. More than the contestant in and more than the ones that are eliminated. So she must be special. Try watching her Rehab, paparazzi and the prayer post idol videos and you will see that her problem was not lack of talent but stage fright. She herself mentionned that. Those bright light and cameras take times to get used too. But she does have the best vocal and once she get trained for the stage she will shine.

      • The Devil

        Nath, why wouldn’t I comment on this now? Pia is the one who just got ousted, not Naima, Thia, etc. When those two were ousted not too many commented because not too many were surprised. So…what’s your point?

      • Roberta

        You should go to Twitter, the outrage over Pia leaving the show is enormous!

      • debi

        totally agree- i would never have voted for her so i assumed correctly that there were many others who wouldn’t either…was not a surprise nor a disappointment!

      • Mary Sue

        I’m with debi – while I thought she had a nice voice I didn’t think she had the prescence to win the show nor do I think she has the ability to be a chart topper now. I think whoever said she should join a group is right – maybe in that setting she could develop her confidence and maybe pull a Beyonce, but I just don’t see it right now.

      • Alice

        I completely agree with Devil. And Nath, nobody is saying Pia wasn’t talented or liked, but the reasons mentioned by Lithgoe is exactly why people didn’t vote for her. Some of us (myself included) just liked and preferred other contenstants who ID have stage charisma and charmed us. It’s that simple. People are getting WAY too intense about this! The girl is beautiful and has a great voice and she’ll be just fine. She already has a record deal. Many of my favorites in past seasons got voted off way too early (Daughtry) but i didn’t feel the need to make a federal case out of it or get ugly about the remaining contestants. I was over it within minutes after the show.

        There are a LOT more important things in the news to get upset & outraged about, and American Idol is NOT one of them. Sorry.

        The media needs to fan the fire in order to sell ads, as does Idol. As the public, it’s up to us to keep them in check and not let them manipulate us & create unnecessary drama about a silly TV show– be it Idol or Two & A Half Man. Funny that the contestants themselves rarely participate in this nonsense. They know better.

      • GoddessLu

        Clearly many felt the way The Devil and Debi, et al did, hence her leaving. Its likely due to the fact that young girls are probably the biggest voting bloc for this show (possibly evidenced by there being only 2 female singers left) and they tend to vote for the cute guys. This really isn’t a true singing competition, its a popularity contest. While I enjoy the first few seasons of Idol, it became clear over time that by giving America all the power, the show was stuck with the byproduct of that decision. Without Simon Cowell, there really is no constructive criticism and as much as I like the judges, they are inneffectual and this stops being a real competition and thus my interest has waned. Sorry Idol, I’ll try The Voice and see what’s up there.

      • Darren Houston

        Isn’t it about the voice? Casey has a horrible personality and was actually voted off before Pia…why is he still on? The “save” is the worst thing about the show. Pia would sell more cds than him any day. Honestly….could you see him on magazines? No! The people that like him or any of the other guys for that matter are probably the same ones that liked Taylor Hicks, Archeletta, Bowersox, etc….the ones that have no chance of making it further than the season finale of Idol.

      • AD

        I thought the devil was just evil; didn’t know he was dense, too. To say to @Nath, “what’s your point?” when he had made a very good, concise point shows your mental capacity. No wonder you didn’t like Pia…

      • Beebop

        Completely agree with Devil – she might have had a small ‘cult’ following who thought she was great but my friends and I thought she was robotic and and a poor entertainer – there are lots of folks who can sing and when you are getting down to the top 8-9 lots of people would be ‘outraged’ no matter who was voted off – so get over PIA and on we go!

      • BlackIrish4094

        @Roberta, people on Twitter are lame anyway so who cares they are outraged. Pia is talented but another Whitney, Mariah, Celine etc, rinse and repeat. When she got elminated this week, it was ironically the only performance of hers I actually enjoyed.

      • jj

        Not only that, but if the media had made this much of a stink when Naima and Thia were eliminated then there would have been more places to comment on that. There were no articles like this when they were ousted. Hence the comments. I agree, Pia had a great voice but was not being personable on stage. She was like watching someone perform at the Miss America pageant. Her “River Deep” was probably her best performance. If she’d started out doing that instead of boring outdated ballads that have been done to death (usually in pageants), she might have had more fans.

      • ftw

        What Alice said!!!

      • ANNIA

        Perhaps she got voted off because of that hideous outfit she was wearing. LOL. She is gorgeous, great voice, but lack of the relatability if you ask me. She’ll be fine. Calm down, folks!

      • FromChicago

        I’m not invested in the show. I felt she was technically the best but whenever she sang, it was like seeing Celine Dion who is technically great. But I just don’t “feel” Celine. Or maybe she’s singing the wrong songs….but I cannot put my finger on it. The two songs she’s slayed me with were My Heart Will go on and God Bless America. other than that, I’m not a big Celine fan. Thus, Pia looked the part, she’s pretty, shapely, but had no personality.

      • Opinion

        The only performances I liked from her was this weeks River Deep and when she sang after she found out she was leaving. All the other weeks her voice was plain. Long notes but plain. Watch her other weeks performances again and also watch Leona Lewis and Jennifer Hudson. Now compare those singers and you will see that Pia was nothing special.

      • Calm Down

        I hope Nigel doesn’t change the show that way. That would suck. Voters vote and there will be a bottom 3 but then the judges get to pick who goes home out of the bottom 3..sounds horrible. Imagine how that would be like: the judges left out Lauren Turner, Kendra Chantelle and Colton Dixon. He said maybe to that idea. Nigel, if you do that I wont watch your show next year. Give viewers control, not your stupid judges.

      • Amy

        I complained. It’s just that no one really talks about American Idol anymore in general. She did appear on the Tonight Show, though, which isn’t a regular occurrence for AI cast offs. I am still also seething over the early departure of Colton Dixon.

      • Jake

        Nath, get some help with writing! Oh wait, I’m sorry, didn’t realize you were only 12. Good job.

      • Deb

        Who cares if she connected with the audience or not? It’s a SINGING competition and people should be voted on just for that. This is the problem with AI being fan-voted. Too many little girls out there voting for Scotty and Lauren because they are so likable. Yes, they are good singers, but nobody in this competition was a better singer than Pia.

      • linda fischer

        i completely agree. i kept hearing the judges tell her over and over to stop just singing ballads all the time. she also never moved on stage until the last song. yes she’s pretty, but rather boring. the judges are being hypocrites.

      • sue

        Enough already. Pia clearly didn’t have the fans. Not one person I’ve talked with, young or old, voted for Pia – zero connection. How must Stefano be feeling with all this fallout and media hype? He deserves to be there as do the other remaining contestants. Imagine Pia will be just fine …

      • Monster Kill

        And why would people complain that Pia is Ouit? They didnt voted for her, thats the reason. ENUFF of Pia, so redundant issue here. Get a life, Id rather watch Haily gyrate on the stagew than l;isten to Pia who sings like a dead wood. Thia Megia is a lot better than her and when she was eliminated, people accepted that but now with Pia they are howling like mad dogs. so preposterous bunch. CRAZY!

    • darclyte

      I tend to agree. She may or may not have been getting a lot of votes prior to this week, but Nigel HAS to say that to try to “spin control” it. It is odd for someone to never be in the Bottom 3 to suddenly get the boot, but it happened to Daughtry, Casey this year, and now Pia. But what else could Nigel say, really?

      • Mary Sue

        Why does he have to “spin control” this? Do you have ANY clue who you are talking about? Nigel LOVES – even LIVES – for controversy and it would be WAY better for him to be saying she WAS a front runner and reminding people to vote to drive up the numbers than to say she wasn’t one.

      • Lee

        Are people that dense? Of course, Nigel is doing damage control. Because he knows both the judging and voting are flawed. And, Mary Sue, Nigel isn’t saying that Pia was a frontrunner. Just the opposite. So why is that way better for him?

      • Tarc

        Nah, this is hardly ‘spin control’ – like Nigel cares. Pia’s already essentially signed to Interscope, and the world goes ’round. If the public doesn’t like the results, then it’s *their own fault*. Right now, the female teen and female young adult voting blocs are evident – the ladies are being systematically eliminated, while Stefano (the youngest, cutest, least talented male) is constantly retained. *shrugs* It is what it is.

      • JS

        Every year a quality singer who most people view as a “front runner” gets voted off around this time because nobody realizes that they are in trouble. Most winners of this show have at least one appearance in the bottom three, which mobilizes their supporters to vote even harder for their favorite.

        There’s actually a fairly simple solution for this. Why not publicize the exact vote totals each week??? This would let fans know exactly where their favorites and mobilize them to vote for somebody who was in trouble.

        The only possible downside – the vote totals creating a runaway favorite clearly heading towards victory, could be addressed by not releasing votes for the top three, if this is a major concern.

      • Mary Sue

        To Lee – I know what Nigel is saying – I CAN read. What I am saying is that if he was doing damage control he would be saying “Pia was a front runner and this goes to show that you have to VOTE VOTE VOTE or your favorite can go home” and he’d be trying to drive the votes up for next week. Besides, how is saying she wasn’t a front-runner damage control? Obviously she wasn’t a front-runner if she didn’t get enough votes to stay – and at this stage of the game?

      • Zakry

        What? Damage control?? What damage? What are you people talking about? One contestant doesn’t sink this show.

        It seems to me that people universally agreed that Pia was beautiful and had a great voice… she just didn’t inspire the passion for people to actually VOTE for her. Maybe she didn’t excite folks, maybe people figured she didn’t need their help as much as others. This happens on Idol.

        There is no damage control here. There is no DAMAGE.

      • a

        Nigel could get in a lot of trouble for lying if that was the case because there are others who know this years results too. Insiders could tell TMZ. I believe Nigel was telling the truth.

      • Calm Down

        I hope Nigel doesn’t change the show that way. That would suck. Voters vote and there will be a bottom 3 but then the judges get to pick who goes home out of the bottom 3..sounds horrible. Imagine how that would be like: the judges left out Lauren Turner, Kendra Chantelle and Colton Dixon. He said maybe to that idea. Nigel, if you do that I wont watch your show next year. Give viewers control, not your stupid judges

      • Jake

        Odd? Not at all. It’s happened before. No great outrage here–she wasn’t going to win anyhow, and I believe that she was never a frontrunner.

      • melissa arias

        pia shouldve stayed she was doing better than the rest of them i think she was connecting with the crowd she always got my attention on all her songs no matter she will be missed the ones that didn’t vote missed out becaused you sent the best singer home i hope she comes back to american idol but i like that shes starting her own music career. ill miss on the show pia ily number one fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Vickie Costanzo

      I agree, I heard from someone who works for FOX, that they had problems with their On Line voting, but they never mention that! Like the Government, there should be a recall to the votes!

      • Wow

        There is always an “issue with the voting” when someone you like gets sent home. I remember that argument all the way back to Clay Aiken.

      • Darin

        The “issue with the voting” goes all the way back to the first season when Nikki & Justin outlasted Tamyra.

      • Inside

        Well, here in LA the word on the street is that this played out EXACTLY the way they planned from the start. The word from the beginning was that Pia was a plant on the show by the producers – put her on, put her through for a few weeks and then pull her out early in a “shocking” elimination to build her name and then sign her to a contract after the fact. Looks like that is EXACTLY how it played out.

      • Zakry

        BS.

      • Inside

        Why is that Zakry? You don’t think they are LOVING all of the publicity surrounding this “shocking” elimination? You don’t think the producers are capable of manipulating things behind the scenes? You don’t think Nigel is looking at Pia as a huge cash-cow right now? Sorry, but worse things have happened behind the scenes in this industry.

      • Monster Kill

        Never mind Pia now, she is happy dating Mark Ballas lol. Ill vote for Stefano and James and i never voted for Pia before.

    • Tonya

      I’m sorry – but Pia was terribly boring. Sure, she had an amazing voice, but she had no personality – for all the people up in arms about her being voted off, I’d be curious to hear if any of them actually voted for her.

      • cheese

        I don’t really undestand the argument about her not having a personality or actually putting on a performance on stage…because I don’t think it really matters whether she can put on a show when you listen to her on the radio…

      • dedee

        I personally felt she was a great singer, but I think she’ll do fine without this show. To me there are about 10 recording artists out there who have similiar vocals, and I personally would like to see something a little bit different. She seems sweet on camera, but it does to see an actual “performance” on stage rather than to just stand there and sing.

      • carly

        Pia was my favorite and no I don’t vote. Mainly because I’m an older adult and don’t have time for that. That dosen’t mean I’m not upset about it. As far as her having a great voice but no personalily or not being very good working a stage as some have said about her, neither was Carrie Underwood during her Idol days. It was only after she won and had to perform so much that she developed a stage personalily. Hopefully Pia will do as will as others like Jennifer Hudson and Daughtry who were kicked off too soon also.

      • Tonya

        An artist can not get by on radio airplay alone.

      • Darren Houston

        Again…if personality has a lot to do with it then why is Casey still on? He was actually voted off before Pia so that proves that he’s worse. And he looks horrible…at least Pia would sell b/c of her looks

      • Kyle

        @carly: “don’t have time for that.” So you have time to watch American Idol and time to post here in the comments, but not the few seconds it takes to vote???

      • K

        Well, if American Idol were a radio show, then her stage presence wouldn’t matter, cheese. But it’s a TV show. These people go on tour and perform live in front of audiences around the country. And you simply can’t be a successful recording artist at the level that AI wants their contestants to reach without putting on a hell of a stage show. So yes, stage presence and connecting to the audience and performance beyond the actual singing voice…all that is crucial on this show and in a major recording star, and Pia hadn’t figured out how to achieve that yet. So I’m utterly indifferent to her leaving, because I was utterly indifferent to her song choices (“All By Myself,” really???) and her generally lethargic performance style. Gorgeous voice. But completely wasted. She should have done more performances the way she performed “Teenage Dream”, quite honestly. People don’t like a static contestant.

      • Lee

        Oh, give me a break about Pia being boring. I think it’s pretty sad that American equates “boring” with “being classy.” Pia was not boring but classy.

      • Mary

        I have to agree. There was something about Pia that totally turned me off. I was quite pleased when they announced her name as the loser of the week. While she is very pretty and she can sing, all she did was ballads, the SAME as Thia. And yet the Judges never said anything to her about it, but constantly told Thia that she needed to expand her selections. PLUS, she does have a record deal, not that I will be buying any of her music at all!

      • Tarc

        No, Lee, America perfectly understands the difference between classy and boring. And Pia was a great singer, and classy, and very, very poised. But she was also very, very boring with what she presented on the show. Could her song selection be any more downtempo, old-fshioned, and dull? All By Myself should have been the end – if only for the song choice. That said, her issues will be quickly resolved with a good set list and a year on the road. Iovine’s going to make some cash off Pia – but she was never going to win Idol.

      • ftw

        Seriously, the girl just refused to listen and didnt know the lesson that she should have lesson from EVERY OTHER SEASON of AI!!! Do not sing boring outdated ballads. The original iconic version is usually better. And they have been sung ad nauseam at every talent show and pageant in the country. AD NAUSEUM. The only way to get away with it is to do a completely different spin on the song and that’s very hard to do as well. Song selection killed her on the show. I’m sure for her recording career, she will have producers that she will actually have to listen to and that will make all the difference. Buh Bye Pia

      • @ Lee

        Yes there is a difference between being boring and being classy but that doesn’t mean Pia wasn’t both. Yes she’s classy but she’s still boring as a wall. Her answers were always lovely and .. classy but so bland, meaningless and let’s be honest, they sounded pre-rehearsed. Don’t get me wrong, maybe they weren’t rehearsed. But they sounded like it in my opinion.

      • Zakry

        I agree with most this thread. For all the outrage, I’d like to know who actually voted for her?

        And, yes, all the “she’s boring” stuff shouldn’t matter, its about her talent, but viewers (as this forum shows) put all kinds of personality judgements into their voting. Its. Stupid. She wasn’t on this show to be your friend.

        And, yes, I do think you can be classy and boring. I have to admit, I thought she was great, but I never voted for her. I think that’s the case for a lot of people.

      • MC

        I voted for her multiple times, as i have been for most of the girls all season. I’m a 28 year old male and am getting really tired of the ridiculous pattern this show is developing with huge favoritism to the boys based on the voting system. None of the boys have the vocal chops that Pia has, and i’m sorry, but if what Paul McDonald does is considered performing and having “stage presence”, then i’ll take “boring” Pia any day of the week.

      • guemesbill60

        Tonya, People probably feel the same way about you, Pia has a true gift in capturing what music is all about and how to share it. And Nigle, doesn’t have a clue, I think he’s just trying to cover his backside to the backlash of how this went down. Idol is creating a pretty bad image of itself and thats sad.

      • danni knight

        you are truly stupid.it’s all about the voice. not who jumps up and down on stage?

      • Kiki

        So was Carrie Underwood when she was on the show. Yeah, she won and has had a great career but let’s be honest, she had NO stage presence on Idol.

      • melissa arias

        she did have a personality in her music and yes i voted for her she always brught tears in my eyes i went trough the same thing that she went through with her grandparents i lost my grandpa and im singing now…

    • jake

      I know that if you believe dialidol that scott is consistently the front runner.
      Ashton kutcher, tom hanks, jennifer hudson all commented on Pia’s ouster so there is outrage out there. This is not media created, it is fan outrage. Just look at the message boards. Let me ask all of you “bored Pia” fans who you think should win?

      • S.

        @jake – I think Scotty should win, but I also find Casey & James intriguing. Everyone else is same old, same old to me, but then I don’t vote (well Naima was different, but in all the wrong ways).

      • Lee

        You found Casey intriguing hiding behind his bass and James sitting on his stool for his entire performance this past week? At least be honest with yourself.

      • nellie

        Casey was PLAYING his bass and Pia could have benefitted from sitting on a stool and giving an emotionally honest understated performance rather than the pageant-like balladeering.

      • Darin

        I think James should win. He’s actually turning out to be better than I originally thought. I see a James v. Scotty final. Scotty will win because the “safe” guy has the advantage (see Kris v. Adam).

      • v

        dialidol is never accurate. That website had Tatynisa Wilson and Julie Zorrilla as the Top 2. Even go to the dialidol website and check out the past lists.

      • melissa arias

        well since pia went home i think its between haley and lauren they both have incredible voices. you both should sing your hearts out

    • Vince from NYC

      I thought the girl was gorgeous and could sing very well. I even grew up in Howard Beach, the same neighborhood as she lives in. Still I wasn’t rooting for her to win. I didn’t really think she had what it took to win it all. I was surprised she went out. I though she’d be top 5, but not 1 or 2.

    • yawn

      I have mad love for Nigel, American Idol and So You Think You Can Dance but they need to do a better job of making it so the results aren’t so fake looking. Does anyone really believe that Pia got less votes than Stefano? Fact is they want someone younger to win this season; Scotty will be in the Top 2 as American Idol’s country version of Justin Bieber.

      • Tarc

        Yeah, I believe it. I don’t *agree*, but I think there are certain demos that have much more sway in the results. We see year after year where the youngest cute male gets through week after week (despite obviously poorer performances), and the same thing doom any of the gay contestants. *shrugs* I don’t like it, but that’s they way it is.

      • Zakry

        >>Does anyone really believe that Pia got less votes than Stefano?<<

        Yes. I do!

      • tommytomted

        Pia got voted off because not enough people liked her. It is just that simple. The really bad outfit didn’t help. Talk about your “Gateway” cows! Holly cud!

      • Monster Kill

        Scotty? No i dont think he is that popular as Justin Bieber, his looks is not intriguing at all and he is also boring when he perform. Id rather see Stefano and James at the Finals. Both good looking with best pipes.

      • Kiki

        James is good looking? When did they redefine good looking to include that? Ugh.

    • Tarc

      To be blunt, why is damage control needed. Pia had obvious drawbacks in the Idol setting, and she didn’t get the votes. It’s just that simple. Did anyone seriously think the critical white teenaged female demo was going to vote for Pia for the win? The fact that Stefano (as much as he’s improved) is still around agrees.

    • Lori

      If people did like her she would be staying. Case closed.

      • John Berggren

        Plenty of people don’t vote for contestsants they think are safe. And too many people robo-vote.

      • sam

        Plenty of people also don’t vote for contestants they don’t like. Pia has a great voice but i didn’t vote for her simply because i like Haley better.

      • Petra

        It’s too darn bad and all, but this is a strong Season. Not as strong as Season 7, but strong! Other than the unlamented Ashthon, everyone proved they had talent. Perfect Thia, who never missed a note, went home on “you’re 16 and gosh knows you have potential but you were boring”. Thia tried to improve and go uptempo, but got voted out.
        Perfect Thia was followed by Perfect Pia. Same charge, but didn’t try to change like Perfect Thia, and was old enough to know better.

        Had Perfect Pia stayed? She said next week she was going to do a great, soft ballad from West Side Story.

        Cased closed.

        ****************
        On the matter of voting, don’t want the celebrity judges with half the votes total – as in past seasons, Cowell and Dioguardio played clear favorites. Don’t want Seabiscuit to have a vote. Don’t want the Live Audience to vote out 1 from Bottom 3.
        DO WANT only 5, 10 Tops phone calls per phone or by internet. And I want a 50 cent a call charge to discourage someone with access to multiple business or institutional phones from using it (not a good thing if a shutdown for the day school, government building sees a 500 dollar bill from a security guard rushing phone to phone. Besides 50 cents a call would help charity enormously).

      • Jim

        agree

    • John Berggren

      They need to change the voting. I know they get excited over the inflated vote totals – but a better contest would limit the amount of votes per viewer.

    • Crony

      Pia=ZZZZZ. Love that she is finally gone.

      • linda

        exactly crony! all 3 judges told her the song choices, outfit choices and lack of movement or personality needed to change, so why did they act as if she had been assassinated?

    • Kathy

      I fully agree there! And if South Africa could vote, I am quite sure that a whole lot of us would have voted for her!! She is an awesome singer, and an awesome person, always humble, beautiful, and just look at the way she handled being sent home……I am only one person out of millions that had tears in my eyes last night, and couldn’t stop thinking of the HUGE mistake they have made the whole day today….actually, I am totally peed off!!

      • tommytomted

        Pia went home because she didn’t get enough votes. She never was a front-runner, Never!

        I lay this right at Steven Tyler’s feet. He is the one most responsible for filling her full of crap like “you are the brightest star in our Idol Universe.”

        He should be arrested for dereliction of duty!

    • Riley

      As with most Idol contestants, Pia has a rabid fan base that feels she was “robbed”. This has been going on since Year One of Idol! Remember Tamyra Gray’s elimination before Nikki McKibbon? This isn’t anything New or anything to get in a Panic about. Very few people I know voted for or wanted Pia to win. Most everyone agrees she had a great voice, but she never connected with what she was singing or the home audience.

      I completely Disagree with changing the voting system to SYTYCD’s. That works fine for that show, but Not for Idol. You’d be cutting out the Audience’s opinion on who they want to hear more of… the CD buying public may not agree with the judges on who they would buy from.

      Nigel,
      if you are going to change the voting system, you need to Limit the Number of votes per method. The number of times someone can Text or Power Vote for a contestant, does not equate to the number of CDs they will purchase.

      • Monster Kill

        Pia has Rabid Fan Base? Then why didnt they voted her millions of votes to ensure she will be safe? Thats an insane assumptions about Pia hahahaha….

    • Jessica

      Your point is well taken but I don’t know how many people are actually going crazy. Yeah there are a lot of people blogging here who are all indignant and outraged but how many of them exhibited that same passion in voting for her? If her fans were so devoted, then they would have voted and she would still be there. As for the ‘oh teenage girls vote a million times so of course Pia fans couldn’t have done the same’… well, my answer is if she did indeed fail to generate the same fervent response as her competitors did, then that in itself is her shortcoming.

    • Music Critic

      Pia = Nice Looks, Nice Voice, but booring…..Zzzzzzzz

      She should have pushed her song choice and she needs stage present, and not just look like she is trying out for Teen USA.

      • Pattt

        I don’t see the love for Pia. zzzzzzzzzzzzz – What am I missing. There is no star there. She’s being a cry baby to gain support she never had.

    • Doyle

      Get over it , that was the way America voted! I loved her voice too but never voted for her once there are way better contestants!

    • xs

      Where were the votes that would have kept her in the competition is she was so well liked? All of you whiners just didn’t get off your asses and pick up the phone and vote for her and now you want to blame everyone else. Get over it, she was a bore, a great voice but no charisma.

    • kellybelly

      I agree Brittney.
      If people didn’t like her and others like her who were voted off early, then Daughtry & Jennifer Hudson, etc wouldn’t be selling records today.
      The people who buy the records are not necessarily the ones voting the most. Or if they are, they aren’t power voting. Probably 10 votes each.

  • Brittany

    I think they should change the rules. No one can vote as much as the teens. I have a job and a child. I did throw a couple of votes Pia’s way, but I don’t have a computer program to vote thousands of time for me, and I don’t have the time to vote manually like a robot. Something needs to change. No way should arguably the best singer to ever be on Idol get the boot.

    • darclyte

      I’ve been saying since Tamyra that they should have the judges pick from the Bottom 3. This would prevent the need for the “Judge’s Save,” it also would prevent people like Tamyra, Daughtry, Casey and Pia from going “too soon.” It also would prevent people like Tim Urban and Sanjaya from sticking around too long. Heck, if they did it that way in the Top 24, maybe Kendra would have made it this year, and Lilly and Katelyn last year.

      • GS

        The problem is that the judges think everyone is awesome. No way would JLo have picked Stefano to go home before Pia and they’d probably have died if they had to send Jacob home (although I can’t for the life of me figure out why). These judges worry so much about being liked that they are not worth crap let alone the millions they are being paid.

      • Tess

        I agree. And I have a hard time seeing the judges making the choice. They can’t even be mean enough to really critique the contestants. Do you really think they would be able to do a good job deciding who to cut???

    • gazmo

      The ONLY way to fix Idol is: #1 Limit voting to 1 vote per phone number or email address; and #2 Vote to get RID OF the worst contestant each week, instead of voting to KEEP your favorite.

      • Meli

        Gazmo, the only way to fix Idol is to take it off the air. No matter what solution someone comes up with, there’s always going to be a problem. Everyone just needs to get over it.

      • Mary Sue

        I agree Meli. There is NO WAY that changing the voting system will happen – IDOL LOVES saying things like 55 million votes came in without having to clarify what the actual number of PEOPLE voted. And sorry, if you take the votes away from the people – either by limiting the number of votes or giving the judges the right to VETO the viewers the ratings will go down.

      • Kiki

        Gazmo, I agree that they should limit it to one vote each. But I don’t agree with your #2 — they’re not looking for a singer who pisses off the fewest, but excites the most. By industry standards, Celine Dion, Kesha, and Justin Bieber are all huge successes, and they all have lots of folks who hate them. Whereas no one hated Tamyra Gray, but no on bought her album, either.

      • Kiki

        I think that IF the show is supposedly about finding a viable commercial singer, the person voted off each week should be the person who sold the least on iTunes. That way there are no conspiracy theories, no arguing — dollar signs are dollar signs. That would also give a better indication of which singers are likely to have a shot at post-Idol success. Truth is the voting only works for Idol as a tv show and not as a talent scout program because the voting system enables and encourages power voting and power voting does NOT translate into power sales, as we’ve seen from the Kris Allen and Lee Dewyze debacles in which their runners up quickly and easily outsold them.

      • Kiki

        For the sake of clarity: I am the Kiki of 9:54am and I am a different person than the Kiki who proceeds me.

    • Wow

      If you can sit there with your eyes glued to the tv for two hours, you can throw a few more votes at your favorite person.

      • Mary Sue

        That’s the problem – I don’t sit there for 2 hours – I record the show on DVR and then fast forward through about 85% of it. I don’t even listen to the full performance in a lot of cases (sorry, but I don’t need to listen to Scotty anymore – I know what he sounds like and it doesn’t change from week to week).

      • T2

        Me too, Mary Sue.

      • Kiki

        I stopped voting after Season 8 when it became quite obvious that my willingness to “throw a few more votes” toward my favorite meant NOTHING when others had the ability to robovote tens of thousands of times while I was casting 4-5 votes.

        I doubt I am alone in having given up voting since my votes mean nothing in this voting system.

    • Julie

      The “best singer ever on Idol?” It can’t be proven or measured as fact. It’s an opinion.

      • tiavro

        agreed. and that’s a pretty bold statement to make. One that I definately don’t agree with by a long shot.

  • Mike

    They should just cancel the show.

    • Riley

      Another Pia fan going Overboard.

  • Farris Flagg

    What Show Was He Watching Last Week?!!! Pia Can Sing Her Ass Off!!!!!! I Don’t Know What You Have Been Hearing!!

    • Redhead

      Yes, she can sing, but she was boring to watch. I can absolutely believe that she was not a frontrunner.

      • :(

        I must be one of the few people who think that singers’ main talent is their voice, not how exciting they are they are on stage. Her personality would have improved with time and experience–her talent is timeless.

      • Carli

        Redhead, I totally agree with you. The chick’s got an outstanding, stellar voice, but was incredibly boring. she needed a personality on stage. I feel the same way, I believe it when Nigel says she wasnt a frontrunner. Now Casey Abrams and James Durbin…. those guys, to me, are front runners.

      • Fingerlakes Dave

        How exciting do you have to be ON THE RADIO?
        You take people with no formal training (in most cases), throw them on the stage, then expect them to preform like pros? Really!?
        I’m amazed some do so well, and at such a young age. (I wonder when they’ll lower the age limit to 10 or 12?)
        Back on topic: can I see James with his full stage productions listening to a track? Scotty melting every teen hear with his looks?
        This may be the best this that ever happened to Pia. It may have slowed her down. I doubt it will keep her out for long.

      • Mike

        In my opinion Pia didn’t do anything for me. This process is to vote for an entertainer, so while she has a great singing voice, I wasn’t overly entertained by her. I am voting for someone I would want to go see live. Pia stood there. When they told her to move around the stage she moved to another spot and stood there. For me it wasn’t entertaining, and she isn’t someone I would pay money to go see.

      • Tarc

        @Fingerless Dave – Who listens to the radio? And you won’t be a financially viable music artist via record sales. If your’e not good live on satge, you’re doomed right now.

      • Riley

        Fingerlakes Dave and some of the rest of you…

        You do not need to Watch Pia to know she did not connect with what she was singing. There are thousands of very talented singers in the world like Pia. The ones who make it, on Radio, are the ones that can show emotion in their Voice. They Embody what they sing. You can Hear it when they sing. Pia was technically a very good singer. However, she did not feel or connect with what she was singing. You could see it on the stage And hear it in her voice and recordings.

      • Petra

        Perfect Thia and Perfect Pia should have looked at Perfect Melinda. It isn’t enough to sing perfectly. You need fans vs. people who just admire that you sing perfectly.
        At least Melinda sang with feeling, and mixed it up. But perfect as Melinda was, she never got a huge fan base dying to see her Live! or buy her records.

        Perfect Thia has a wonderful chance now, seeing what happened to Perfect Pia, not to go down the same boring path as she goes from 16 to 22…

        The fate of Perfect Pia is another example to the people brainwashed by Kara Dioguardi that it is NOT “All about the Notes! The Notes!”

      • @ :(

        I agree. First, you have to have a good voice. Then you can work on the performance. Also, jumping up and down and dancing awkwardly doesn’t translate into stage presence. Pia had infinitely more stage presence and charisma than Paul and Haley. Why do people keep complaining that she was boring and didn’t connect with her songs when so many of the other contestants don’t do that either?

      • squishmar

        To those who say that first you have to have the voice and then you can work on the stage presence…. I think both Madonna (whose voice *has* greatly improved over the years) and Britney Spears (who still has a very weak voice) would vehemently disagree. And you would not be able to argue with them.

    • Rappenwolf

      Unfortunately, she sings with her ass. Watch her peformances. She bends her knees and sticks her butt out. She walks very stiffly when she’s not standing at the mike. Granted, her voice is tremendous but she doesn’t perform for an audience very well.

      • gazmo

        HA! Just like Haley – they both look like dogs looking for the right spot to take a dump when they sing. Two steps – bend from the knees and stick out the butt – two steps – bend and protrude. . . over and over and over!!

    • tommytomted

      Pia never connected with the material, or the audience. She had trying hard mixed up with soulful singing.

      She never had a meaningful pause in any of her songs. Not one. She never made the audience feel the words to her songs. She may have been good for a beauty pageant singer, but she was not good enough to win Idol. No where near. And her album will drop like a stone in the water.

    • xs

      She can sing but she’s no performer, sorry.

  • Vivi

    I’m taking his word for it. All this ‘damage control’ and ‘more behind the story’ stuff is for the birds. She may have been a front runner amongst these boards but clearly, she wasn’t with the voters. I think this shocking cast-off should be a reminder for folks to consistently vote for not only your favorite but for those who actually have talent, too. Don’t wait until something like this happens to b*tch. Especially, if you have never voted a day in your life.

    • kim

      i agree – most of the furor and indignation seems to be stirred up by the numerous media reports. And if people are really such huge fans of Pia and are getting so worked up about her elimination, then where were they during last week’s vote? Don’t blame it on ‘oh i did vote but i don’t have the time to vote a million times like those teenybooper tweens do.’ If you’re really so passionate about Pia then you would have sat down and voted for her nonstop. If you didn’t, then don’t go around making a big fuss about it now because clearly, she failed to stir up enough passion and dedication in you to actually vote the way the other idols’ fans voted.

      • Petra

        Kim – You completely miss that most the audience does have a life and the last thing they want to do is spend hours when they could be doing something else or getting ready for work “power texting for hours”.

        The “you have nobody to blame but yourself if you are not devoting the whole night to powertexting like obsessed tweens are” argument doesn’t fly.
        The audience numbers drive Idols revenue, the audience demographics that buy the Coke and Fords and later the music is different than the power-texting ‘tweens and old ladies without lives.

      • squishmar

        @Petra, I have read many of your posts and I generally agree with them. I agree with this one too but someone said something on one of these many boards that really makes sense. I understand that the power-voters and the actual music buyers are different demographics (which is why the last several winners’ CDs have failed to do well) but you can’t argue with the fact that the tweens and “old ladies without lives” *are* Americans. It’s American Idol. They are entitled to do whatever they want and however many times they want with that “power.” It’s such a simple little thing but it’s so true. It may be the vote is skewed but it’s still skewed by people who have the right to vote for whomever they want. I don’t necessarily like it, but why should they be put down so just because we don’t agree with them? We could do what they do if we had the desire (and time) but we don’t.

    • sunni crisp

      I totally believe she was the best singer but it isn’t always just about that or a lot of the past winners would not have won. Jennifer Hudson, Chris Daughtery, David archiletta, Aaron Kelly all are exaples of that. America votes and if they don’t vote enough this happens. I feel bad for Stefano as I think the judges probable made him feel like dirt.

      • Dee Jones

        The judges are so irresponsible for what they did to not only Stephano but the other contestants when they were so upset when Pia got voted off. They owe Stephano an apology. Also if the judges are so upset, but do they themselves vote?! HYPOCRITES!

      • will

        Aaron Kelly???

      • Riley

        David Archuletta was Dropped by his record company… not enough album sales. Bad example. And Aaron Kelly?!? LMAO

      • Zakry

        What did the judges do to Stefano?

    • Ames

      If she’s that popular, she’ll get a recording contract and people can buy her album.

    • Tarc

      I think that you have little clue about reality. The handful of people that whine on a blog is not an actual smaple. Pia went because she got the fewest votes – and that’s it. There are great reasons for it. She’s already been given a record contract. Done.

  • Kenneth

    This guy doesnt know what he is talking about- I mean he says Pia didnt connect with the Audience is rubbish- because men in the masculinity, macho nature dont text as much a girls and girls love to text for men who they think is hot- its stupid let the judges vote … Nigel just zip it

    • Mia

      Those macho men also don’t purchase music or concert tickets.

      • Wow

        macho men don’t watch this show. They are in another room watching “Dirty Jobs” or “Bass Masters”

      • Tarc

        That’s a lot of BS, which I can tell you as soemone that sold those tickets many summers when I was in school. Guys bought TONS of tickets.

    • leo

      Well it`s true that guys don`t vote and that Pia definitely appealed to man more than Scotty ,Stefano or Casey! And women don`t care to vote for other woman ! Stupid female nature!!!!!!!!!

      • Fingerlakes Dave

        Speak for yourself guys. This is one of the few things I do with my daughter (where we aren’t at odds over something). Oh, and I DO VOTE.
        I’m the one with the pen, a pad, who was # what for the night and sang what, we discuss how well they did, and how difficult it was to hit notes, or if they really were of key (my daughter takes voice and guitar).
        Not everyone is into the crud on cable (well, the other crud).

    • Jake

      “men in the masculinity, macho nature”–what kind of nonsense phrase IS that? And if they’re masculinity and machismo keeps them from votings, then they deserve for their favorite to go home. What faulty logic, dude.

  • Steve

    Nigel, as much as I like your shows, “connecting with the audience” isn’t calculated by counting up all the votes from power-dialing, lovesick teenage girls. Pia appeals to adults who have better things to do than spend two hours dialing Idol’s phone line so they can brag to their friends the next day how many votes they cast. Until AI fixes this chronic, and I think eventually show-killing, problem you’re going to keep getting finales with underwhelming talent like Lee Dewyze, Blake Lewis and David Cook.

    • cattyfan

      “Pia appeals to adults.”

      Um…not the adults in our household. Or the other ones I speak to daily. Can she hit the notes? Sure…but there’s more to be a performer than that. I found her terribly boring.

      • kim jones

        Of course you did because you probably like Ke$ha, Katy Perry and Beyonce….in other words: Bad Singers.

      • T2

        Thank goodness someone else thinks Beyonce is a terrible ‘singer’. That off-melody warbling up and down a scale of her own on Irreplacable is so laughable, the whole office cracks up and warbles along loudly whenever that ‘song’ comes on the Top 40 station that is on (unavoidably) at work.

      • cattyfan

        kim jones…you have no clue, and there’s no need to be insulting just because I have no love for a fourth rate reality show contestant. (For the record, you couldn’t pay me to listen to the tripe you listed. I tend toward Koop Island Blues, Jose Gonzalez, Kaiser Chiefs, and Bonnie Raitt.)

      • sam

        @kim jones: Grow up honey, people are entitled to listen to and like the music they please. You sound like a fool judging like that.

    • Amy

      I’m with you on Lee Dewyze, but Blake Lewis and David Cook are definitely not underwhelming talent!

      • pola

        Compared to Pia( and i`m not even her fan) yes they are!!!!!!

      • Jake

        Blake Lewis? HAHAHAHA–good one, Amy!!

    • Dana

      Excuse me…David Cook absolutely rocks and his talent on and off the show was great!

    • pete

      that’s quite an assumption, isn’t it? I have adults in my household and i can tell you that while they thought Pia has a lovely voice, they didn’t vote for Pia and did not want to vote for Pia. That concept of “appeal” is very personal and no one needs you to speak on their behalf, thank you very much.

    • AGM

      You did not just say that David Cook was an underwhelming talent.

  • patootie

    what does it matter? she’s out now. the question is will you buy her album? probably not. most people just critique the singers but in the end never buy their albums.

    • Brittany

      Totally will buy her album. You should check out her songs on youtube she wrote and produced herself. I’m at work which is the only time i have a few min to comment on Idol lol

    • Sue

      oops -I meant album.

    • kim jones

      Actually this might be the only Idol album I would buy. Truly great talent doesn’t need all the stage antics either. Watch kelly Jones from Sterophonics. I also don’t recall Mariah Carey ever running around the stage. In fact i think it looks worse when a singer trys to be something they are not. I once saw Don Henley perform and all he did was stand there and sing and I was in heaven.

      • Julie

        But Mariah debuted 20 years ago. Things have changed so much since then.

      • squishmar

        A good comparison would be Adele. She has an incredible voice and doesn’t “run around the stage”. Difference between her and Pia is that Adele is mesmerizing and connects with the songs she sings. Plus, Adele’s voice is unique and Pia’s is not. Pia’s is rare, but not unique.

      • squishmar

        I want to clarify that by “rare” I mean that she is technically a very good singer, which is a rare thing. Adele, is both… technically perfect but with a voice completely her own.

    • sam

      i agree – all these people here are getting all worked up about Pia’s ouster but in reality, how many of them will actually lay down cash to buy her music? If they can’t get up enough enthusiasm to vote for her (yes nonstop voting if that’s what it takes – hence the passion aspect), then what are the chances that they will fork over actual money to listen to her? While I agree that she sings well, she’s basically Celine Dion or Mariah Carey “lite version.” If i want to listen to someone belting out music, I would buy Celine or Mariah’s music, not Pia’s.

  • Barb

    Pia was the best singer they have and I just may not watch Idol any more ,because it is just not fair. The judges should have saved her and changed the (only one save) and brought her back,. But maybe she will be better off because she has a contract allready. Good for them and bad for Idol. You go Pia!

    • Tarc

      And where were you when Adam Lambert or Christ Daughtry got booted? It’s more than a little hyprocrtical when there are obvious reasons that Pia went home (too early, yes but she was never going to win).

      • Darin

        Adam didn’t get “booted.” He made it all the way to the finals. As for Daughtry, he’s benefitting from revisionist history. Back on the show, all of his performances sounded exactly the same, and he started to lose his voice near the end. He was lucky he lasted as long as he did. No matter. He seems to be doing just fine these days.

  • Lori Adams

    I agree that Pia has an amazing voice, but smething about her demeanor and stage presence left me cold. When I saw Kelly Clarkson the first time, I knew she was going to win–she just had the IT factor, whereas Pia simply didn’t. Love her voice though and I’m sure we haven’t heard the last of her.

    • kim jones

      It is funny you say that because I have always felt that way about Carrie Underwood and to this day that girl does not know how to work a stage or sing.

      • DiMi

        BUT Carrie has a beautiful voice and connects to the lyrics, though not to the audience. Pia did not connect to the lyrics or audience; she just sang very nicely.

  • Jim Wilson

    Absolutely, this is damage control. It’s a season with a very mediocre group, perhaps less than karioke. Miss Tosconi obviously has the strongest voice in the group. Given that, I think idol has run it’s course. Time to move on.

    • Jake

      Please do, whiner.

  • QJ201

    It’s all about texting teen girls. Dial Idol used to be accurate (they ranked Pia in the top 3 last week), but texting has taken over the voting.

    • Wow

      then start texting yourself. If you cant beat em, join em.

    • Luke

      @QJ: I agree that texting is affecting the outcome. DialIdol had Paul coming in last — but they only measure busy signals, and most of Paul’s votes probably come from ferociously texting females.

      • v

        dialidol is never accurate. That website had Tatynisa Wilson and Julie Zorrilla as the Top 2. Even go to the dialidol website and check out the past lists

      • HTC

        DialIdol actually called Casey coming in last that week.

  • fiona

    One vote per phone…and you vote for the person who should go home. That could change each week based on the performance but it still weeds out the weakest each week better than the system does now.

    • Chet

      I don’t think voting for the person who should go home is the way to go at all. If that was the case someone like Adam Lambert wouldn’t have even made the top 10, nor anyone else who was a polarizing but entertaining figure.

      • Kiki

        Yeah. What Chet said.

      • Petra

        Chet is dead on mark. Lambert would have been dead before Top 12, so would have Clay Aiken, Syesha, Smithson,Magnus..
        The whole dare to be different crowd if it was based on voting out the performer you most noticed to dislike out of a pack…anyone with stand out uniqueness you didn’t care for.

      • Dominic

        Great Chet, it’s going to hard enough for Idol to produce a gay or non-white or female winner and you want to further stack the deck…?

  • Zach

    Saying she was never a frontrunner is very ambiguous. Did she really not get the highest (or one of the highest) vote tallies of the top 12 girls to get into the top 13 in the first place? In that case, the idea that the plurality of viewers thought Pia was (deservedly) the frontrunner and yet she wasn’t getting the most votes is further proof of a flaw in the voting system. And even if she was NEVER getting the tween vote that goes to Scotty, James, and Lauren, Pia was never in the bottom 3, so unless Pia was always bubbling over the bottom 3, nothing Nigel can say changes the fact that this comes off like as much of a fluke as Casey’s would-be elimination three weeks ago. Obviously it’s telling that more people have come to Pia’s defense than have haters and those who have objectively criticized her stage presence and relatively indistinct voice.

    • Tarc

      What’s a fluke about getting voted to the bottom? And seriously, Pia’s better off with Interscope. What’s the beef?

      • Zach

        When someone has never been in the bottom 3 and is eliminated, YES, that comes off like a fluke, especially when it’s a supposed frontrunner like Pia? Of course, I don’t have the vote totals, but she was never in the bottom 3 or 2 and then eliminated? It could have been a fluke just as Casey’s elimination would have seemed like a fluke.

      • Kiki

        FACT: Pia can’t sign with Interscope or anyone else until 19 CHOOSES to release her. The Idol contestants all sign contracts with 19 that gives 19 the right of first refusal. Being voted off the show is a not a “refusal” by 19 to give them a contract. They have to wait for 19 to release them — which they won’t until the last possible minute so that booted-off contestants are not competing with current contestants on iTunes and so on.

        She is STILL under contract to 19.

      • Squishmar

        Kiki: You sound very knowledgeable about the contract situation. I’ve always wondered about that. I know it was really strict the first season…. really, Justin Guarini got screwed if he had been able to put out an album a little bit sooner. The realized they were losing money by making the runner-up wait a whole year before allowing them to release. But they were also de-valuing the worth of being THE American Idol. I’ve been wondering how they were going to straddle that line with Pia… don’t cut in too much on the ongoing contest but still capitalize on the huge amount of publicity her ousting has generated.

      • Squishmar

        My grammar is so messed up on that post…. been up all night. Sorry.

    • Jake

      “haters”? Idiots like you always use that cliched word to defend their favorites because they’re too stupid to come up with any other argument. Not haters–more like “bored.”

      • Zach

        I said both haters AND those who objectively found legitimate things to criticize. Are you really going to pretend like there aren’t haters out there too? Instead of using the cliched word “idiot,” why don’t you actually read everything I wrote and respond accordingly?

  • Not good enough

    Pia is only a good ballad belter. She is just a Celine Dion wannabe that lacks personality. She is not a an excellent perfomer. Simon rejected Pia when he was still in AI. Pia is not as good as many people think she is. She was just a favorite of the three current judges. She lacks connection to the audience. She also lacks humility. She seems to believe that she is the frontrunner and will always be safe.

    • Andrew

      She had total grace and humility. She never assumed she’d be back always prefaced “if America like it” etc.Ballads are the hardest thing to sing. Standing there without dancers and fireworks or burning pianosall around you just a mic and your voice. That’s trained talent. Yeah, America ( or more exactly t’ween middle America)really gets it right. I can’t even remember who won within the past few years. But it’s been guys, and not gay guys, cause the t’weens can’t marry them, and sign their tweets Mrs. Stefano Langone..Puleeeese!

      • Zach

        Seriously, right? Pia was the most unassuming one there considering her obvious talent. Sure, it’s easy NOW to pinpoint mistakes she made, but I don’t think complacency was one of them.

      • LOL

        America loves crap.

      • Jake

        And you were probably hoping you could sign your name Mr. Pia Toscano. Seriously, you wouldn’t stand a chance.

      • Zach

        See, Jake, it’s comments like this that remind me that there ARE haters.

    • Iq

      I agree with you all the way. Looks are deceiving! It’s not fair to the other contestants left, honestly they’re much better. Pia wasn’t robbed, people should be real.

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