With last night’s torture-by-electric-drill of Chloe’s ex-husband Morris O’Brian, the sudden flare-up of protests against 24’s use of extreme force will probably stoke an even hotter fire. Some of the posts in response to my 24 TV Watch from last night begin to suggest what I’m talking about:
"Man, that drill scene with Morris was just a little too much. My wife and I were not too happy about that. I love the show, but it is going a little too much on the side of torture. The show is all about torturing people, to get information," wrote "Doug." And "drowe" wrote, "Too much torture — this is not entertainment to watch how to physically abuse someone. I love the show and can suspend belief — but enough of the torture scenes. Use cleverness and intelligence…"
These readers join a growing outcry over increasingly intense scenes of torture on 24 and other shows. The current issue of The New Yorker features a piece by Jane Mayer called "Whatever It Takes" that reveals that "this past November, U.S. Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, the dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point, flew to Southern California to meet with the creative team behind 24." Finnegan and what Mayer calls "three of the most experienced military and F.B.I. interrogators in the country" journeyed to Hollywood to express their concern that their perception of the series’ message — that legal niceties must be ignored in times of terrorist threat — was "toxic."
This past Sunday, the Associated Press reported that the advocacy group Human Rights First has been keeping track of the dramatic increase in torture scenes in prime time generally post-9/11, and has met with both 24 and Lost producers, urging them to tone down such depictions. The AP piece asserted that some U.S. interrogators in Baghdad have asked to use tough information-extracting techniques that they’ve seen on DVDs of 24.
And it wouldn’t be a controversy if the blogosphere didn’t chime in. LA Weekly columnist Nikki Finke used the New Yorker piece to condemn one of 24’s co-creators, Joel Surnow — a self-proclaimed "right-wing nut" — and called for viewers to "boycott" 24. Finke’s post was picked up by Vanity Fair contributing editor James Wolcott on his blog, where he refers to 24’s "insidious sadism," and seconds Finke’s disapproval.
Now, I totally agree with Wolcott’s suspicion that "the popularity on the right of 24’spulp fiction is proof that the real reason they approve of torture isnot because it yields information and saves lives but because theyvicariously enjoy the infliction of suffering — it’s their favoritebrand of porn," and with Finke’s labeling of Surnow as "one ofHollywood’s biggest a–holes."
But here’s the thing: Hollywood is loaded to its gills witha–holes, on the right and on the left, so I don’t think that argumentis too compelling, and Finke gives her real class-animus away with thissentence: "How tragic for TV audiences that, just like that White Housecrowd, here’s another right-winger who won’t let the facts get in theway of his ideology."
See, I don’t think TV audiences are the dumb "victims" of tragic conspiracies. I and millions of people enjoy watching 24first of all because it’s a crackerjack suspense show (let’s put aside,for the moment, our quibbles with this season’s subplots — that’s stuffI’ve gone over in my TV Watch). But we also enjoy it because it’sfiction — it’s a revenge fantasy, as much as Alias in itsteeth-pulling heyday was. I dislike it when people say, "It’s onlyentertainment" because that denigrates the value of entertainment. 24is first-rate entertainment. It is so well-written (mind you, Surnow’sco-creator is Howard Gordon, an avowed liberal, so there’s got to besome yin-yang balance at work on that set), and so well-acted (KieferSutherland, pictured, has said in interviews that his own politics lean left and thathe’s acutely aware of the difficulties of presenting material like thisin an artful, non-exploitive way) that it does not merit blanketcondemnation.
I seriously doubt that any U.S. servicemember is using 24 asa guidebook for torture; the most cursory search on theInternet will get you lots of books on torture methods that pre-date 24’s existence, and even the New Yorker’sMayer notes the presence of some such books in the production officesshe visited. It’s not as though 24 invented the idea of inflicting painas a pulp-fiction plot device. Maybe I have a higher tolerance forviolence than some — I think one of the greatest movies ever made was The Wild Bunch, and there was a lot of prettified violence and pain in that masterpiece.
But I also think anything that stirs debate is good. Better that 24,with its finely calibrated suspense and terrific acting, should movepeople to discuss political and moral issues than a primetimewasteland full of American Idols that prompt nothing more than gibbering about whether or not some jerk judged by professional jerks can carry a tune.
What do you think, PopWatchers? Does 24 need to dial it back? Should TV producers censor themselves if asked? Do we need to boycott this show?
Comments (1-30) of 53 Add your comment
I’m an admitted liberal, but I’m able to enjoy 24 without worrying that it’s pushing a right-wing dogma down America’s throat. Joel Surnow’s conservative beliefs are as welcome on TV as Aaron Sorkin’s liberalism–as long as their politics don’t impede their ability to tell a solid story in an entertaining manner. (This season, it’s Surnow 1, Sorkin 0.) I think there’s a great debate to be had about 24’s stand on violence (as there was with Steven Spielberg’s “Munich”), and I’d love to see if it can be done without the petty insults that permeate a lot of the blogosphere.
First off, I thought the torture in last night’s episode wasn’t that bad compared to a few other 24 torture moments (in season 1 Jack threathened to shove a towel down one man’s throat to pull out his insides, the opening torture scene in season 2 was pretty nasty and one lone agent getting tortured with a buzz saw was cringe worthy). Torture’s always been used in 24, so unless you’re a new viewer, I don’t get the complaints.
2nd of all, if people are going to be overly critical about torture on TV, then what about Prison Break (Michael Scofield had two toes amputated by Abruzzi) or Criminal Minds (a recent episode had a woman mutilated by dogs and then shown on the internet)? Hell, let’s also note the sadism-heavy Saw/Hostel films.
Torture being used in films/TV may have grown in recent years, but any history fanatic knows that torture’s been used long before now. I remember seeing devices Catholics once used for torture. Really sick stuff.
Honestly, 24 doesn’t need a boycott
Maybe it’s just me, but all these people complaining about torture on “24 now, as well as people complaining about the judges being “mean” on American Idol this year…where have you all been?
Oh’ come on!!! This is fiction, very entertaining fiction, by the way. People are stupid, but not that stupid to buy on 24’s torture methods. I can only hope this outcry doesn’t lead to the pussyfication of the show, the only program that makes me yell at the TV: “Oh, Jack, how could you? You-da-man!”
The torture scene was relevant to the plot, so I would never boycott it. However, I was pretty sickened by the drill. But, we have to remember that it was a TERRORIST
I thought the drill thing was pretty tame compared to real-life torture, like Americans getting their heads sawed off by terrorists. When Jack Bauer crosses that line, then I’m with the boycott. Until then, no biggie.
Since when does Lost torture? In the (comparitavely) tame Sayid scenes? So these people have problems with torture for a cause in fiction, but not horror movies where there is aparrently no reason. I know it’s not real, but these guys that ask them to tone it down need to watch movies.
Yeah, people need to calm down. 24 has always had torture.
I think the same people who are complaining about the use of torture on 24 are the same people who have conveniently forgotten about 9/11.
Uh, people this is not difficult…if you are offended, upset, traumatized, or otherwise affected when watching 24, either first hand, or on Tivo, FEEL FREE TO TURN OFF THE TV, CHANGE THE CHANNEL, OR DELETE THE RECORDING! People, please…..move on!
Until mankind is peaceful enough not to have violence on the news, there’s no point in taking it out of shows that need it for entertainment value.
I love the show, but I thought the drill scene was sickening and disturbing. Just the screams were unbearable, let alone the sight of what was going on. I put it on mute and looked away. The show was being recorded on TiVo at the time, and turned it off because I thought I’d watch in its entirety tonight. When I got home tonight I was reluctant to watch it because I didn’t want to have to see that torture scene, even though I would have been able to fast forward through it. I didn’t even want to know it was happening.
I don’t think there’s any need to boycott the show, but I wish they’d make the torture scenes less graphic.
Thank you Cher Horawitz….spoken like a clueless ditz, but it makes SO much sense!
K…now, why is there a problem about a guy getting tortured by a drill, but there’s no trouble about 12,000 being killed from a nuclear bomb stateside? Not to mention that the guy with the drill WAS A TERRORIST. You know, a BAD GUY. Bad guys do a lot worse on fiction shows. Then when the hero does it everyone’s up in arms. Relax and enjoy the show. If you can’t, go back to Grey’s Anatomy.
I enjoy the show, but wish that they would tone down the torture. Yes, it happens in real life, but why does that make it enjoyable to watch on TV? I also don’t understand the trend of showing people vomiting, seizing, bleeding and exploding on primetime television. Not my idea of fun. I was totally into Heroes until they started sawing people’s heads off. There is something to be said for the power of suggestion. That way, depending on your tolerance level, you could imagine him getting tortured by anything from a drill bit to, let’s say, the latest Mariah Carey CD.
Give me a brake, if u dont like torture dont watch the show its part of the show, hello do u think when people are heald hostage in irag they feed them tea and chips, lol man ive watched this show since 1st season and torture is part of the show u dont like it dont watch the show,,, and the i think the ew writer that rips this this show might wanna talk to better writer then him and critic by name of mr king, and ask his opinion on the shows torture since he loves this season!! and i think mr king should do the tv watch for 24 because this guy doesnt have guts to enjoy good quality torture tv.
i bet u anything the 9.1 million people that watched the show in 1st and 2nd season dont have problem with the torture its these weak bandwagon people that just watch it because its cool thing do, u people can go back to watching boring housewives,and gays anatomy with little retarded law and orders…
Um, Mike, nobody said that a little nuclear explosion is nothing — it is horrible, and if we had to sit and watch what happened to the people in it, it would be even more disturbing than the drill scene. The point is, we DIDN’T see the close-up effects of the nuclear bomb. In the drill scene we heard the screams, we saw the blood. THAT’s the issue. Unlike Nick, who enjoys “good quality torture TV”, some of us don’t want to be so intimately familiar with pain and horror.
I think we should boycott the liberal newspaper and magazine writers who whine about torture. On 24, there really isn’t time to use any other method of information extraction than to beat it out of someone. The numerous postings about violence in other show, especially movies, is dead on. Where’s the righteous indignation about a movie where someone must saw his hand off to get out of a cage? What point is there to that plot other than someone is watching and getting off on it. There is never any torture on 24 that isn’t a means to an end…usually an end that saves thousands of American lives.
And, yes, a nuke just went off in suburbia, killing 12,000 people. Is there not a problem with that? It’s ok to kill people 12,000 at a time, but not to kill 1 slowly?
Like I said…boycott the writers who complain about torture on a fictional TV show. Leave 24 alone. It’s one of the best hours on TV today.
nick, the torture on Lost was Danny kicking Sawywer’s butt.
nick, as much as you’re whining about Ken Tucker not enjoying the show, he stated in this very article:
“But I also think anything that stirs debate is good. Better that 24, with its FINELY CALIBRATED SUSPENSE AND TERRIFIC ACTING, should move people to discuss political and moral issues than a primetime wasteland full of American Idols…”
Ok, so he was disappointed in yesterday’s episode. It’s his opinion and frankly, I agree with him. He loves 24 (as do I) but this recent episode left something to be desired. When it’s the other way around, I bet some of you are still going to rag on him.
And as much as you’re slamming Desperate Housewives, Grey’s Anatomy and Law and Order viewers, those shows are just as graphic as 24, if not moreso.
But I do agree that Lost’s torture scenes are really tame compared to 24. Pffh…Heroes is more violent than Lost. Why no mention about that?
But that’s the point, Joe Cool, of the problem with the scenes of torture in 24. On the show, almost everyone who’s tortured actually has something to hide, and they give up the game when they are tortured enough. But in real life, when people are tortured enough, they’ll say *anything* because they just want it to stop. Yeah, 24 is fiction, but unfortunately, torture is not, not in Iraq and not in Afghanistan (Abu Ghraib, anyone?). And as far as I know, the American government isn’t asking anyone to chop off their hand in order not to die, a la Saw. 24, and the ideas that drive it, are a little too close to home for the “it’s just a TV show” excuse.
People who complain that 24 is “too violent” are just as bad as those who claim that Lost is “too confusing” or that they “don’t know when to laugh” when watching The Office. In short, these people are NOT true television fans. They aren’t interested in how incredible many network shows have become by rewarding those of us that are devoted to our shows, those of use that are immersed in the years of character development, plot construction and underlying themes these shows construct. Sure, someone flipping through the channels and seeing Monday night’s drill scene on 24 might be shocked, but those of us who have watched every episode since the premiere understand the sociopolitical context the scene took place in. When writers and producers go back to making TV for the channel-flipper, the “network televsion renaissance” we’re in right now will come to an end. (Note: the network television renaissance does not include Deal or No Deal or Accoding to Jim.)
Also, the press seems to randomly pick a show to rail against and then they really stick with it. Before, they had a problem with 24’s depiction of Arabs. Now that most of the villains this season are turning out to be either Russians or Americans rather than Arabs, the issue over the torture scenes has arisen. If the 24 writers excised all the torture scenes, they’d cook up a new issue to take it’s place. I can’t wait for the New York Times article on how CTU’s dimly lit interiors are causing eye damage to viewers.
I am personally getting sick and tired of this depiction of torture on TV, and not only in ‘24′. I am also appalled by some of the comments, dismissing criticism of torture as some ‘liberal poo-pooing’. I am a retired soldier and a qualified military interrogator and I know that torture doesn’t work. I also believe that its use is morally indefensible, against anyone. Defending its use against terrorists only corrupts our own society, without giving any real valuable info. A person being tortured will simply say anything or invent a lie to make the pain stop. Another point many should think hard about: if you use torture, then your ennemies will use that to justify torturing our own soldiers, even if they should be entitled to the protection of the Geneva Conventions. And don’t use the ‘but they would torture our soldiers anyway’. Some would, but some would not, at least as long as we don’t torture their people. Let’s stop inventing justifications for the use of torture!
“I also think anything that stirs debate is good.”
Well then, you must think that the War in Iraq is WONDERFUL!
Debate is good, but many things that stir debate, like unjsutified wars, torture chic on TV, etc., are NOT “good”.
maya, you are right about how people (I’m sure) will say anything to get torture to stop…not that I or your or hopefully any of us have any actual experience with that subject.
My point with the Saw reference, was that the New Yorker writer and others getting so worked up about a fictional depiction of torture and violence on one show and not all of them. I suspect a liberal/ conservative issue there.
I don’t enjoy the torture scenes, either, but they are a part of this most excellent show so I grimace and hope the scene isn’t too long, which they usually aren’t.
If we want to talk about torture on TV, let’s talk about the tool at Fox News that had himself waterboarded on television for a story and came out of it saying that it wasn’t torture and it was a fine interrogation technique. Forget the fictional torture, this was supposed to be NEWS.
Ken Tucker your liberal agenda is showing. How could you even bring up an issue as silly as boycotting a program as great as ‘24?’
And why are these problems with the show coming up 5 seasons too late?
Go stir up the fire for some other shows on tv for truly being the crap they are – not my ‘24′
I wonder if Ken Tucker and others would now like to advocate that we boycott showings of “Marathon Man”. That movie had one of the most terrifying torture scenes in cinematic history.
I am really becoming dissatisfied with the route “Entertainment Weekly” is taking. They are an entertainment journal, not a political magazine. Their writers CONTINUE to infuse their pet political causes and beliefs into their TV and movie reviews. I read EW to find out if shows, movies or books are good or bad, not to hear Ken Tucker philosophize on the moral relativism of torture on TV.
If he wants to watch real torture, he can TIVO “Entertainment Tonight”.
24 is a great action/drama show. In my opinion, a truly great action/drama makes you feel emotion, good or bad, and makes you squirm, feeling as if you are right there with it. No show does this better than 24, and that’s why anyone who has been watching from the first season, is still watching: that being sucked into the story feeling and stirring of emotions.